ucdtim17

WN flies OAK and SJC to BWI. It has been 2x daily OAK-BWI recently but that may have been a max grounding casualty. They also fly both OAK and SJC to MCO.

fly18725

channa

Thanks, forgot about SJC-BWI.

You'll notice on all the WN Bay Area transcons, there's no direct competition on the exact endpoints. WN does well when there's no one else flying it. All of AS's transcons have at least one competitor also offering nonstop service, I believe.

tphuang

The problem is both b6 and as have too much of their Network in transcon. And in b6 case, they are the reason those JFK Bo's transcon had such low yield this quarter. They dumped 2 flights each to la area out of JFK and Bos, which were simply too much capacity in the dead of the winter. So even if they did well in those markets, it was tough for their Network overall, since legacies can cover losses with a much larger Network.

But make no mistake, b6 didn't have a bad quarter because it was uncompetitive in these markets. It was because Boston as a whole is a low yielding market right now. There is nothing it needs to do in these premium markets. It has already trimmed the secondary markets for summer and fall.

As on the other hand has an uncompetitive product for these markets, which have been low yielding to begin with. So it could actually do something about the situation.

Imo, it's not that simple for as to just add a subfleet since it actually has to change it's revenue management on premium seating. Giving away fc with cheap or free upgrades is a money loosing strategy in premium markets. But they are very good for the home Seattle markets. At end of the day, Seattle is far and away the most important market for as. It shouldn't piss away ff with a model that isn't optimized for it's home market. B6 is based in NYC which is the biggest premium market in America with plenty of people willing to pay more for like flats. You can expect every carrier to adopt the strategy.

And even b6 is updating mint for tatl entrance. So carriers should always be updating it's products to reflect the times. As needs to figure out what that is.

Visconti

This.

Money is not the issue here. On general principle, it makes no sense to pay for a product that can be had free or via alternative methods. Unless AS create some barriers of entry, even to their existing underwhelming SFO/LAX tcon F product, good luck finding people who will pay actual hard earned $$ for it. Heck, at this point, I'm even reticent to use a GGU and just roll the dice for an upgrade paying the elite tax on tcons.

_fx

Most premium fliers in the Bay Area are not spending their own money. They're business travelers (probably in tech or finance). And none of them are going to play the upgrade lottery and potentially end up in Y to saver their employer a buck. They'll shell out whatever the price is, within reason. Apple, Google, and Facebook alone spent a combined $220 million with UA last year.

SEA has historically been a different market than SFO. Fewer corporate dollars and less travel. But that's changing. The tech scene in SEA is exploding, and companies with deep pockets like GOOG and FB are moving in. Moreover, existing companies like AMZN and MSFT are decentralizing, increasing the need for employee travel. This will drive up demand for premium cabins. AS might be safe-ish for now because there's not much competition, but a lot could go wrong -- DL adds D1 SEA-JFK, B6 and WN merge, TPAC partners disappear, etc. If AS doesn't stay competitive, that sweet corporate $$$ will go somewhere else.

Kacee

On premium t-cons? I suspect my thought process is shared by many others. Who in their right mind would pay the same price (or similar) for the inferior AS premium product SFO-NYC?

_fx

How about a frequent flyer who avoids red-eyes, and thus sees less value in lie-flats. But they do value perks of the AS FF program, such as better mileage earnings and the MVPG change fee waiver?

Snowdevil

Here's my question to all current AS elite level members:

If AS committed to a dedicated premium transcon subfleet that had a Mint-style configuration and amenities....would you be willing to give up your complimentary, status-based upgrades?

Or are you willing to stick with 41" pitch in F that still beats all other non-premium transcon F offerings in exchange for keeping your complimentary, status-based upgrades?

Because honestly, that's probably what premium transcon looks like if AS does it - kiss those free upgrades buh-bye on those routes.

So, is it worth it? Would you make that exchange?

_fx

VegasGambler

But then why not just pay for economy and grab a premium seat?

Honestly the difference between AS F and premium is minimal. Or even an exit row window seat. I'm not saying that there is no extra value there, but it's nowhere near the fare difference. I think even AS recognizes this -- they as much as said so in the earnings call. F is just there to be given away for free to elites -- they are not actually seriously trying to sell it. They will happily throw it out there with a ridiculous price tag in case someone bites but they are making no real effort to sell it.

Kacee

In theory. But that doesn't seem to be working in California.
On the premium routes? Absolutely.

fly18725

Visconti

Isolated to the SFO/LAX tcon routes? Sure, but the price can't be more than, say, whatever UA/DL/AA/B6 is charging.

eponymous_coward