jjmadison

This is the most glaring problem, in my opinion (even more than the subpar interior maintenance). All it would take is improved training of FAs to improve service. There is no underlying cost to Alaska.

FAs sitting in the galley for three hours of a six-hour flight should not be SOP. Unfortunately, on the majority of transcons I've flown since the new training completed in Jan 2019, this is almost always the case. I've spoken with three FAs about this, two that came from VX and one from AS. All three said the newer training was less clear on proper etiquette in F cabin, with "if you have time" or "at your discretion" being common refrains from the trainer. The result: FAs feel they have wide latitude in how they offer First Class service which, in turn, is leading to frequent fliers and elites seeing wide disparities in service.

This is an entirely fixable problem by Alaska, but so far, there doesn't seem to be an interest in fixing it. Again, to those who will argue Alaska is trying to save pennies wherever possible, improving service minimum standards would not cost Alaska a dime.

jjmadison

You're in good company. I showed this to an AS exec who had been flying VX fleet for the last year. He was shocked.

Eastbay1K

I don't recall if a VX FA ever informed me of this feature. Maybe, just maybe, one did once, but it was certainly not a regular thing in my experience.

jjmadison

Most people definitely don't know about it. It was something they highlighted in their early advertising for the VX F product but didn't get much notice after. I always thought they should have included it in the F seat-back brochure.

Here's an old article referencing the adjustable lumbar and massager (#3):
https://thepointsguy.com/2017/09/experience-only-on-virgin-america/
"...fully adjustable leg rests, lumbar support and massage functions."

And another:
http://fortune.com/2015/09/10/best-domestic-airlines-business-travel/
"...spruced up an already standout first-class cabin, complementing the white leather seats and lumbar massagers."

Visconti

Likewise. VG hit that one perfectly.

It's just hard for me to pay $$ for a product that is strategically used as a perk to be given away for free. If you give it away for free (or, greatly reduced price), it's what I'll choose; and, I'm certainly not going to be a schmuck & get ripped off by overpaying exorbitantly for it.

eponymous_coward

The problem being that it's hard for enough people to pay for an F product like VX F for a 1-4 hour flight to justify the space it took up in the planes (that could have been used for a denser F and additional seats to be sold on the plane).

The OTT "best in class" shorthaul products like VX F are often state-owned airlines like TK or the ME3 (or it's a case where airlines are flying longhaul equipment on shorthaul routes for aircraft utilization). Conversely, in an industry where everyone had no hesitation copying each other on checked baggage fees, revenue-based earning, and so on, nobody fired up the copy machines on VX F for anything other than transcon (if it's used outside of transcon, it's for aircraft utilization purposes). In fact, Europe's degraded their shorthaul J experience, even though presumably there's money to be had there, and the most consistently profitable airline in the USA post-deregulation has precisely zero F seats.

Either airline executives are idiots who've said "let's not make money for our shareholders" or there aren't enough customers for VX F-style services on shorthaul to make it worth offering it (at the cost of denser cabins that can attract more Y sales).

pinniped

I've long felt like AS F was kind of a shabby F class, but I've had to temper my complaints for one reason: I can actually buy revenue F seats on 3-hour midcons for less than $100 per direction over Y. Considering a revenue F seat posts strong EQM/RDM bonuses and includes lounge access, it's a pretty good deal even if the product isn't top notch.

RAD_PDX

This x 1000. The ability to buy first class fares for 3-4 hour flights for around $200 each way, which include lounge access, is something no other airline can touch. Couple that with the fact that many of these are operated by E175s which offer seats with window & aisle access. Add in the ability to preorder meals and the excellent mileage earning, and Alaska stands out above the rest if you primarily fly these routes (which I do). Perhaps this is why I have a much higher opinion of AS than most. It's all about what YOU experience.

VegasGambler

On which routes? For SFO-AUS (which is a 3 hour route that I'm interested in flying) I generally see $200-$400 price differentials between main and first (I ignore saver)

I agree that $100 is a cheap main->first upgrade for a 3 hr flight... but is that really the norm? The only routes where I see that are very short (main->first on SFO-LAX is usually about $80, on SFO-PDX it's often in the $100-$150 range)

eponymous_coward

SEA-DEN/MKE/OMA advance purchase, on some routes I pulled up. It's certainly not on every route (SEA-DAL/DFW/AUS had higher prices).

RAD_PDX

SAN - STL/OMA/MCI, PDX-STL (when it existed) Range from $179-$229 quite often except for peak days. Granted, these are routes that some AS elites may never fly, but if you fly them, it's a screaming good deal.

channa

There was a $64 F fare SJC-BUR not too long ago. I think it was a $15 premium over Y.

pinniped

I've bought paid F on all of MCI-SAN, MCI-PDX, and MCI-SEA. Not uncommon to see Y at $119 and F at $219. SEA and PDX have big seasonal price swings, but even in the summer the gap is often still in the $100 range.

The PDX flight is on an E175 with is a very comfortable ride if you get an A seat.

The minute you throw in a connection, the $100 difference vanishes. MCI-SEA-PDX might still be $119 (or close) in Y, but it'll be $450+ in F.

jsguyrus

Can we just end the Alaska F is crap and I want a VX F or lie flat seats threads please? While we all whine about the lack of PDB's or a missed blanket there are literately tens of thousands of people who have never flown first class and thinks anyone who does much be rich or a celebrity. For most people, flying in first on any airline is a once in a lifetime treat. Lets all think back to the first time we got to sit in the big seats and how it made you feel! Just trying to keep things in perspective.

VegasGambler

I don't see how any of that matters.

The point is, if you pay for something, you should get it. That fact that others don't pay for it because they can't or don't want to is irrelevant.