[Rant] AS First Class Is a Bad Joke
May 10, 2019, 4:59 pm
#271
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
Well, then we go back into the same old loop again that has been done to death ad infinitum and ad nauseam here in the discussions between the various FT Executive VPs of Market Planning, which is:
- for most of the AS network, a superpremium F product doesn't make sense (if it doesn't make sense for DL to run lie-flats or white leather recliners on all their MSP-ATL routes, or AA on all DFW-ORD service, or UA IAH-EWR, it isn't going to make sense for AS to run it PDX-LAS) , so we're just talking a small number of routes.
- This probably means a dedicated A321/739 fleet so we're talking some number of millions in costs for the refurb and for fleet complexity.
- So, does adding the cost of that mean they'll actually get enough incremental revenue back in F bookings (and loss of Y revenue, since those seats will take up extra space) to justify it?
- Or is it just throwing more money down the bottomless pit of competing for premium NYC-CA business, and they won't win because a) no NYC hub helping traffic on that end, unlike EVERYONE else in the NYC-CA premium transcon market, b) no bigtime corporate contracts, and c) everyone's mad because no more white leather and mood lighting on SFO-LAX/LAS/SAN?
Now, maybe the answer to question 3 is "yes, and the AS beancounters who thought no were wrong wrong wongity wrong". If it really is "no" and 4 is "uh-huh, but thanks for the new lie-flats on A321s you just spent money on", that's a problem too.
- for most of the AS network, a superpremium F product doesn't make sense (if it doesn't make sense for DL to run lie-flats or white leather recliners on all their MSP-ATL routes, or AA on all DFW-ORD service, or UA IAH-EWR, it isn't going to make sense for AS to run it PDX-LAS) , so we're just talking a small number of routes.
- This probably means a dedicated A321/739 fleet so we're talking some number of millions in costs for the refurb and for fleet complexity.
- So, does adding the cost of that mean they'll actually get enough incremental revenue back in F bookings (and loss of Y revenue, since those seats will take up extra space) to justify it?
- Or is it just throwing more money down the bottomless pit of competing for premium NYC-CA business, and they won't win because a) no NYC hub helping traffic on that end, unlike EVERYONE else in the NYC-CA premium transcon market, b) no bigtime corporate contracts, and c) everyone's mad because no more white leather and mood lighting on SFO-LAX/LAS/SAN?
Now, maybe the answer to question 3 is "yes, and the AS beancounters who thought no were wrong wrong wongity wrong". If it really is "no" and 4 is "uh-huh, but thanks for the new lie-flats on A321s you just spent money on", that's a problem too.
Right now the motto seems to be, "Everything we are doing is perfect and we are not going to change anything. But we don't like the results."
May 10, 2019, 5:42 pm
#272
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,847
Well they are losing business and complaining about their low yields so clearly they are wrong about something (unless this is all according to plan, which seems unlikely)
Right now the motto seems to be, "Everything we are doing is perfect and we are not going to change anything. But we don't like the results."
Right now the motto seems to be, "Everything we are doing is perfect and we are not going to change anything. But we don't like the results."
May 10, 2019, 6:22 pm
#273
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: AS 100k, DL PM, New Sagaya
Posts: 1,291
Well they are losing business and complaining about their low yields so clearly they are wrong about something (unless this is all according to plan, which seems unlikely)
Right now the motto seems to be, "Everything we are doing is perfect and we are not going to change anything. But we don't like the results."
Right now the motto seems to be, "Everything we are doing is perfect and we are not going to change anything. But we don't like the results."
Whether you agree with the last sentiment is fair game. But I don't think they are blissfully unaware.
May 10, 2019, 7:05 pm
#274
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: British Columbia
Programs: AS MVPG100K, Marriott Marriott Titanium Elite, Hilton Gold
Posts: 7,263
Yes, yes, there's a whole thread on this forum where it apparently drives people absolutely bananas to compare international premium economy seats to domestic F seats. I humbly apologize - please allow me the correct myself. The UA Premium Plus seat plus is roughly equivalent to the UA domestic F seat, plus a foot rest. Whether the UA domestic F seat is roughly equivalent to AS domestic F seat is already being addressed in this thread.
But I was in error that this is available on SFO-IAD, it's only on SFO/LAX-EWR. On the 787-10 on those routes, a UA elite can pick the UA Premium Plus seat for the cost of economy.
But I was in error that this is available on SFO-IAD, it's only on SFO/LAX-EWR. On the 787-10 on those routes, a UA elite can pick the UA Premium Plus seat for the cost of economy.
James in Dallas
May 10, 2019, 10:37 pm
#275
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: CONUS
Posts: 947
Exactly. No one running AS gets it. And that's the point. They have no idea what they're doing outside of SEA/PDX. Brad & Ben have no idea how to compete in CA. They've run an airline that for years has been secluded from the mass market competition with local markets that instinctively rated them the best, without having flown anyone else.
The pre-flight service mess in first class is a prime example
The pre-flight service mess in first class is a prime example
I thought the earnings call was a little more humble. More along the lines, we moved into a new situation, we don't fully get it. We have some surprises. But we had surprises in other market expansions and we will figure it out.
Whether you agree with the last sentiment is fair game. But I don't think they are blissfully unaware.
Whether you agree with the last sentiment is fair game. But I don't think they are blissfully unaware.
May 10, 2019, 11:08 pm
#276
Join Date: Dec 2008
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 669
I don’t disagree with many of the criticisms of AS F, and especially with the inconsistencies in service/product. But I’ve done a lot of F flights lately to EWR, JFK, OGG etc., and overall I feel like the product has improved over the past year. 75%+ have had good service from flight attendants.
May 12, 2019, 12:37 am
#277
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,316
Moderator Note: Several off-topics posts have been deleted. This rant is closed.
dayone, AS Moderator
dayone, AS Moderator