Flight missing from options if MVP box is checked
Apr 14, 2019, 6:49 pm
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: Southwest A-List; Alaska MVPG; Hilton Diamond; Avis PreferredPlus; Marriott Bonvoy Platinum Elite
Posts: 914
They're only willing (at the time of the last screen shot) to sell 2 more seats in Coach, and only at the highest fare classes. Most flights are authorized to sell more than just 2 seats beyond capacity. So seeing auth down to 2 and lower fares "sold out" is a good indication that the cabin is oversold.
Also coming into play is the fact that First still has available seats. While they would obviously rather have all remaining sales as First Class fares, it would also be silly to turn away a high Coach fare when there is still "oversale protection" available in First. Where do you draw the line ?? The truth is that the line can be redrawn at anytime, authorized booking levels at each fare class is highly dynamic. My guess is that they consider the flight full in Coach, but watching interest in the flight along with availability in First ... and releasing authorization to Coach one or two seats at a time. Seeing coach seats reappear for the flight is not a result of poor AS IT, it is IT constantly rethinking the strategy in an effort to maximize the revenue on the flight.
Seat maps are NEVER a good indication of booking levels. Use them to get a feel, but the only definitive thing they show are seats available for assignment, not booking. Two different things.
Also coming into play is the fact that First still has available seats. While they would obviously rather have all remaining sales as First Class fares, it would also be silly to turn away a high Coach fare when there is still "oversale protection" available in First. Where do you draw the line ?? The truth is that the line can be redrawn at anytime, authorized booking levels at each fare class is highly dynamic. My guess is that they consider the flight full in Coach, but watching interest in the flight along with availability in First ... and releasing authorization to Coach one or two seats at a time. Seeing coach seats reappear for the flight is not a result of poor AS IT, it is IT constantly rethinking the strategy in an effort to maximize the revenue on the flight.
Seat maps are NEVER a good indication of booking levels. Use them to get a feel, but the only definitive thing they show are seats available for assignment, not booking. Two different things.
i appreciate this explanation. But wouldn’t they show the flight to MVPs and not to non-status pax? Instead, they showed it to non-status pax and not to MVPs
BTW, I am booked in this flight, was in coach, and was upgraded at t-48.
Apr 16, 2019, 12:27 am
#17
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Programs: DL-Platinum / AS-PlatPro / Hyatt - Glob / Hilton-Diamond
Posts: 1,573
Well .... I was replying to the post just ahead of mine (how can you tell the cabin is oversold), not your OP.
From your OP, I don't know any exact sequence of events, so can't really come up with a solid theory.
You claimed that (on the app) having an MVP upgrade box checked, excludes the 7:20p flight from the display. I can only assume that without this box checked, you did see the flight. What I don't know is which search (MVP checked vs not checked) came 1st nor how far apart the entries were. I will say again that Yield Management allocations are dynamic. I feel a lot of FT'ers think that an airline decides allocations at the time a given flight is opened for sale and that those allocations are static until the flight departs. This is nowhere close to true.
From your viewpoint, checking/unchecking this MVP box is what changed the availability of 2 coach seats @ $279 each. But did you go back-n-forth multiple times to verify this theory ?
Many other things happened between your requests. Some possibilities have already been mentioned by other members. So I'll add that dynamic re-allocation may have also happened.
Bottom line: "time" happened.
AS uses Sabre as the core to their reservation system. While I have a background with Sabre: 1) my expertise is on the Flight Operations side 2) I have no familiarity with the AS contract ..ref do they use Sabre Yield Management vs having their own.
These airline Res systems are all real-time and in most cases (Southwest is an exception) talk to each other practically real-time. And most travel agents & websites are tied to these systems for actual bookings. If you think that worldwide, you were the only person "shopping" for these flights at the same time, you are seriously mistaken.
Getting back to your thought that the MVP box makes a difference, I read thru the thread to try and decipher it.
Screen shots by RAD_PDX seem to support your theory ... but if I'm reading them correctly, the findings are opposite from yours (and in line with your thought that MVPs should get "better" search results than the general public)
- post on Apr12 at 7:15p shows zero seats avail in coach. There are only 2 fare columns displayed (Main & First Class) thus I assume, with no "upgrade option columns" this was a "non-MVP" request.
- post on Apr12 at 7:37p shows 2 coach seats at for $279. There are also "upgrade" fare columns present thus I assume this was an "MVP" request.
Apr 16, 2019, 12:42 pm
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: Southwest A-List; Alaska MVPG; Hilton Diamond; Avis PreferredPlus; Marriott Bonvoy Platinum Elite
Posts: 914
Well .... I was replying to the post just ahead of mine (how can you tell the cabin is oversold), not your OP.
From your OP, I don't know any exact sequence of events, so can't really come up with a solid theory.
You claimed that (on the app) having an MVP upgrade box checked, excludes the 7:20p flight from the display. I can only assume that without this box checked, you did see the flight. What I don't know is which search (MVP checked vs not checked) came 1st nor how far apart the entries were. I will say again that Yield Management allocations are dynamic. I feel a lot of FT'ers think that an airline decides allocations at the time a given flight is opened for sale and that those allocations are static until the flight departs. This is nowhere close to true.
From your viewpoint, checking/unchecking this MVP box is what changed the availability of 2 coach seats @ $279 each. But did you go back-n-forth multiple times to verify this theory ?
Many other things happened between your requests. Some possibilities have already been mentioned by other members. So I'll add that dynamic re-allocation may have also happened.
Bottom line: "time" happened.
AS uses Sabre as the core to their reservation system. While I have a background with Sabre: 1) my expertise is on the Flight Operations side 2) I have no familiarity with the AS contract ..ref do they use Sabre Yield Management vs having their own.
These airline Res systems are all real-time and in most cases (Southwest is an exception) talk to each other practically real-time. And most travel agents & websites are tied to these systems for actual bookings. If you think that worldwide, you were the only person "shopping" for these flights at the same time, you are seriously mistaken.
Getting back to your thought that the MVP box makes a difference, I read thru the thread to try and decipher it.
Screen shots by RAD_PDX seem to support your theory ... but if I'm reading them correctly, the findings are opposite from yours (and in line with your thought that MVPs should get "better" search results than the general public)
From your OP, I don't know any exact sequence of events, so can't really come up with a solid theory.
You claimed that (on the app) having an MVP upgrade box checked, excludes the 7:20p flight from the display. I can only assume that without this box checked, you did see the flight. What I don't know is which search (MVP checked vs not checked) came 1st nor how far apart the entries were. I will say again that Yield Management allocations are dynamic. I feel a lot of FT'ers think that an airline decides allocations at the time a given flight is opened for sale and that those allocations are static until the flight departs. This is nowhere close to true.
From your viewpoint, checking/unchecking this MVP box is what changed the availability of 2 coach seats @ $279 each. But did you go back-n-forth multiple times to verify this theory ?
Many other things happened between your requests. Some possibilities have already been mentioned by other members. So I'll add that dynamic re-allocation may have also happened.
Bottom line: "time" happened.
AS uses Sabre as the core to their reservation system. While I have a background with Sabre: 1) my expertise is on the Flight Operations side 2) I have no familiarity with the AS contract ..ref do they use Sabre Yield Management vs having their own.
These airline Res systems are all real-time and in most cases (Southwest is an exception) talk to each other practically real-time. And most travel agents & websites are tied to these systems for actual bookings. If you think that worldwide, you were the only person "shopping" for these flights at the same time, you are seriously mistaken.
Getting back to your thought that the MVP box makes a difference, I read thru the thread to try and decipher it.
Screen shots by RAD_PDX seem to support your theory ... but if I'm reading them correctly, the findings are opposite from yours (and in line with your thought that MVPs should get "better" search results than the general public)
- post on Apr12 at 7:15p shows zero seats avail in coach. There are only 2 fare columns displayed (Main & First Class) thus I assume, with no "upgrade option columns" this was a "non-MVP" request.
- post on Apr12 at 7:37p shows 2 coach seats at for $279. There are also "upgrade" fare columns present thus I assume this was an "MVP" request.
Ultimately it didn’t matter much to me, so I didn’t spend a lot of time trying different combinations or looking over a period of time. It was more of a curiosity/puzzlement.