Pondflyer

It should have been a very short hop, after flying from Baku (GYD) to Tbilisi (TBS); and also transiting at the new Istanbul Airport (IST again) and a long-haul TK 009 to LAX; to continue on to, Alaska 1490 from LAX to Las Vegas (LAS). But, not so. Because of strong winds and reports of wind shear, just before we approached LAS, ATC decided to stop movements. Our AS captain announced, that we would circle while waiting for approval to land. By the way, he also intimated, "we have ten minutes of extras gas", (that is a quote) and no problem, we can still divert/return back to LAX. Soon, ATC ordered a full ground stop. And we did return to LAX. Almost immediately, before the door was reopened, the captain came out and mic in hand announced, that LAS ATC had cleared the order and ops had resumed. Therefore, stay calm and poised as we would refuel and go back. Confusion ensued, as passengers, who had had enough debarked. With a ten hour time zone difference, and accommodation in Las Vegas now in jeopardy, one would have wished for hotel in LAX, and then an early flight to LAS. The person in charge, who seemed to make up rules, as passengers milled around and made requests or demands, announced, no, this was weather related (agreed) and the flight had now obviously not been cancelled, but the earliest flight the next day would be at 13:00 (a bust)! So another ordeal had begun. After other passengers had switched seats, and refueling took longer, announced then that it would be just a short ten minutes; there was also a weight and balance issue. And, sad to say, the 'computer' decided not to work. Probably because of GIGO! It would not accept the old flight number AS 1490 input once more. Long story short, we did take off and eventually land at LAS and debarked or deplaned close to 01:00. Some even clapped nervously as wing tips swayed quite a bit on landing in a cross wind. The point of all this is, perhaps someone from Alaska Airlines (knowing the weather situation) could have foreseen the possibility of being 'stacked' above Las Vegas McCarren and put in a bit more gas? My day of conventioneering and not fun, has certainly been ruined after traveling from half way around the world.

Pondflyer

Here are screen shots

Often1

A whole series of different issues here.

You ultimately were on he gate at LAS at 00:43, just over 3 hours late. The reason was, as given, a ground stop at LAS. You were never at risk. Your aircraft actually departed LAX with enough fuel to hold over LAS and divert back to LAX and still have sufficient fuel to continue on and land at another diversion point should that have become necessary. This simply meant not much time holding over LAS.

Aircraft have maximum landing weights and yours was a very short flight. Had it been overloaded with fuel so that it could hold over LAS (which would have turned out futile), you would have had to hold over LAS until you burned the excess fuel.

The entire hotel issue makes no sense to me. Your flight was delayed and not cancelled. If people wanted to offload themselves, that is up to them.

jsguyrus

So you were delayed by three hours because of weather, and? AS and every other airline does not fuel their aircraft for the possibilities of needing to fly in circles for three hours. Not much to see here folks, keep on moving!

Manoa Chris

Unfortunately wind is a frequent issue in vegas in early spring (and to a lesser extent other times of the year, too.... a function of temperature disparities from mountains surrounding a desert).

Sorry you had a rough go of it, but consider yourself lucky that the crew didn't time out consigning you to that flight 15 hours later.

aCavalierInCoach

ten more minutes of fuel prior to hitting reserve is a lot different than just having 10 more minutes of gas... can someone adjust the thread title

UAPremierExec

I understand being delayed on a short flight when you've traversed the world.

However, delays at LAS are quite rare, like a UFO or alien sighting... so I'm not sure the folks in OCC have a crystal ball to see what's going to happen in 3 hours (when most flight plans are done, mind you) before departure. You had a series of unfortunate events, but at least you didn't divert to Phoenix or Palm Springs.

for a 3 hour delay, I'd recommend you use Alaska Listens and enjoy the $50 to $75 voucher they'll send you.

VegasGambler

I can't tell if that's sarcasm.

Delays at LAS are commonplace. I lost track of the number of times I've been sitting in SFO, either on the tarmac or at the gate, due to a ground stop in LAS (usually due to high winds in the summer)

Flying VX F, sitting on the tarmac was way better than the gate. Open bar!

UAPremierExec

Actually I stand corrected, didn't realize there's been some overscheduling -- friend that works for ATC said there's been a lot of problems with the wind shifting and then reorganizing all the departures/arrivals.

formeraa

As others have pointed out, the Captain was saying that he could only circle LAS for 10 more minutes before diverting back to LAX. I would say that he had fueled the plane with probably 3 times the fuel actually needed (enough to get to LAS, circle the aiport for xx mins, and then to get back to LAX). and that sounds very reasonable to me.

aCavalierInCoach

I just fly the piston boys but I think IFR rules for commercial are the similar: you need to have enough fuel to get to your destination, plus enough fuel to get to your alternate (from the destination), and then another 45 minutes of fuel. Sure, they may have been within 10 minutes of that amount, but they had a heck of a lot of fuel on board.

I'm not current so shame on me I am forgetting how that moves when you don't need to designate an alternate (I think it just removes the destination to alternate requirement); theoretically could have been the case here since the alternate requirement is triggered by ceiling and visibility but not wind. Can't imagine a commercial flight wouldn't just stick to the tripartite framework as normal operating procedure.

tusphotog

Planned fuel (in this case, the amount of gas needed to fly LAX-LAS), plus fuel to get to the alternate (back to LAX), plus whatever reserve/holding fuel they throw in, PLUS the contingency 45 minutes of gas.

Can't say I've had many delays in Vegas myself, but I'm not based there, and thankfully only see the city a few times a year now.

Only real ones I've ever had are caused by the occasional thunderstorm in the summer. Spring winds can really get cranking in Vegas and they can really mess things up if the crosswind is out of limits for two of the runways.

VegasGambler

Yeah, exactly. Even if it's not a thunderstorm there can be some really harsh cross winds. I've had some ground holds due to this, and also some pretty bumpy landings.

gr8pirate