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Mea culpa: I just paid full F fare for JFK-SFO on Alaska

Mea culpa: I just paid full F fare for JFK-SFO on Alaska

Old Mar 14, 2019, 5:23 pm
  #91  
 
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little I enjoy more than a nap, especially after a couple drinks
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Old Mar 14, 2019, 8:49 pm
  #92  
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Originally Posted by sltlyamusd


Im only talking about the VX F seating, which is still in place on about 95% of legacy Airbus fleet AS acquired. My point was more that paid F on a former VX bird was a much better value than on an AS 737, because AS did not appear to charge a price premium for F on 320 over 737. Thus, the OP would have been better off booking on an Airbus for the transcon. But that argument will be less compelling as more and more planes get reconfigured.
It's not really uncommon to not charge a premium for better seating. On UA, flying to Hawaii, they have some lie-flat equipment and some non-lie-flat equipment. The same fares with the same rules apply to all of them. AS is the same -- I've never seen a fare with equipment limitations.

I actually stopped paying for F after the merger, even on airbus planes. I bought one round trip to Maui in F post-merger, and I was not happy with it, so I only paid for economy after that. The seat was still great on the airbus but the service was not there any more. Basically, AS turned me from a first-only flyer to an economy-only flyer for a year, and now I'm looking elsewhere for F (since economy on long flights kind of sucks).

I've had much better service on UA in F; they are now where I spend my F dollars. They are convenient out of SFO too. AS will get my short flights in economy (eg SFO-PDX) where service and product don't really matter, maybe the occasional long flight where I can apply a GGU (I will take AS F if it's cheap enough), but mostly AS will be a piggy bank for accumilating miles when flying partners.
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Old Mar 14, 2019, 9:05 pm
  #93  
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Originally Posted by VegasGambler
It's not really uncommon to not charge a premium for better seating. On UA, flying to Hawaii, they have some lie-flat equipment and some non-lie-flat equipment. The same fares with the same rules apply to all of them. AS is the same -- I've never seen a fare with equipment limitations.
While you won't typically see equipment limitations, there are plenty of fares with flight number restrictions, and these typically involve a subfleet on a premium route, or to prevent routing at a lower fare for connecting travel using a premium route aircraft as part of the trip.
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Old Mar 14, 2019, 10:02 pm
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Eastbay1K
While you won't typically see equipment limitations, there are plenty of fares with flight number restrictions, and these typically involve a subfleet on a premium route, or to prevent routing at a lower fare for connecting travel using a premium route aircraft as part of the trip.
Sure, I know that, for example, AA does that very aggressively. They really don't want you in that 3-class lie-flat if you didn't pay for it.

I was talking about routes where an airline has a mix of premium and non-premium equipment. For example, SFO-OGG, SFO-LIH, or SFO-HNL on UA -- they have some planes with lie-flats in F, but also many that don't. Their published fares are all good for all the flights on those routes. You can also connect on those flights very cheaply from some places. Fun fact: on UA, a SFO-YVR round trip, with a YVR-SFO-OGG round trip nested inside, all in P, can be about the same total price ($1300 or so) as SFO-OGG round trip in P. That's a lot of miles, if you're into that sort of thing)

They could also restrict it by, say, zeroing out P and/or Z (bottom two first class codes) inventory on the seats with lie-flats, but I haven't seen that either. I booked a round trip SFO-OGG on a 752 with P in both directions, and SFO-HNL on a 772 with P in one direction and Z in the other, with no real issues finding space on the equipment I wanted (the hard part was researching which equipment I wanted and filtering accordingly)

AS is the same -- they may mix Airbus and/or Boeing and/or Embraer on some routes but they don't charge a premium for different equipment.

Last edited by VegasGambler; Mar 14, 2019 at 10:27 pm
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Old Mar 14, 2019, 11:34 pm
  #95  
 
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Originally Posted by VegasGambler
Just because they got bought does not mean that they were not sustainable. Had they not been bought they probably would have survived.
No, they would not have. The VX shareholders were desperate to unload the airline. At some point they would have simply gone away. AS bought them for two reasons:

1. to keep Jet Blue from getting them
2. To get "some" of the routes that VX flew (which, IMHO was a fools errand). AS has already dropped many of the legacy routes.

The damage that this acquisition has caused to AS will be overcome (I hope) but the problems this merger has caused has done serious damage to the AS brand.

AS is spending tons of money to build a national brand/route network. I hope it will work in the long run.
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Old Mar 14, 2019, 11:47 pm
  #96  
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Originally Posted by BOB W
No, they would not have. The VX shareholders were desperate to unload the airline. At some point they would have simply gone away.
Shareholder (un)happiness has no effect on solvency. Stock prices can tank but that's not really relevant.

AS is spending tons of money to build a national brand/route network. I hope it will work in the long run.
That will certainly make them a more attractive option.

What I don't understand is the focus on cost cutting (at the cost of goodwill, particularly from elites) at a time when profits are good. It's not like they can't afford to give you a pdb or a pillow and blanket in first class. Was their 60 day no change fee policy really costing them that much? Or the low fare guarantee? Admittedly, basic economy will probably make them a lot of extra money, especially when they work out all the bugs.

My crystal ball tells me that next on the chopping block is change fees ($200 to match the big 3 on domestic routes) and then, within 2 years, the dreaded revenue based FFP. But then, my crystal ball is notoriously unreliable.
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Old Mar 14, 2019, 11:54 pm
  #97  
 
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Originally Posted by VegasGambler
Sure, I know that, for example, AA does that very aggressively. They really don't want you in that 3-class lie-flat if you didn't pay for it.

I was talking about routes where an airline has a mix of premium and non-premium equipment. For example, SFO-OGG, SFO-LIH, or SFO-HNL on UA -- they have some planes with lie-flats in F, but also many that don't. Their published fares are all good for all the flights on those routes. You can also connect on those flights very cheaply from some places. Fun fact: on UA, a SFO-YVR round trip, with a YVR-SFO-OGG round trip nested inside, all in P, can be about the same total price ($1300 or so) as SFO-OGG round trip in P. That's a lot of miles, if you're into that sort of thing)

They could also restrict it by, say, zeroing out P and/or Z (bottom two first class codes) inventory on the seats with lie-flats, but I haven't seen that either. I booked a round trip SFO-OGG on a 752 with P in both directions, and SFO-HNL on a 772 with P in one direction and Z in the other, with no real issues finding space on the equipment I wanted (the hard part was researching which equipment I wanted and filtering accordingly)

AS is the same -- they may mix Airbus and/or Boeing and/or Embraer on some routes but they don't charge a premium for different equipment.
Isnt UA flying lie flat F to Hawaii mostly an operational consideration, where it simply makes sense for them to route an internationally configured bird to Hawaii on certain flights and/or seasonally for a variety of reasons, largely related to fleet utilization and capacity (of course with ETOPS constraints)? I dont know UA well, but certainly thats the case with AA. When you get a lie flat seat on a route that doesnt always have it, its marketed and priced as domestic First (or regional Business in the case of Caribbean flights). AS using Airbus planes in the VX configuration is basically the same but the fleet is the way it is for a different reason.

As with transcons, that doesnt mean you shouldnt take advantage of it when you can. But UA isnt making fleet or pricing decisions based on putting lie flat seats on Hawaii flights (or any flights other than the premium transcons and long haul international), are they? Of course, AS has no long haul configurations, so in the long term they wont have a better F product getting subbed in for operational reasons.
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Old Mar 15, 2019, 12:01 am
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Originally Posted by VegasGambler
Shareholder (un)happiness has no effect on solvency. Stock prices can tank but that's not really relevant.

My crystal ball tells me that next on the chopping block is change fees ($200 to match the big 3 on domestic routes) and then, within 2 years, the dreaded revenue based FFP. But then, my crystal ball is notoriously unreliable.
VX was losing money consistently and the BOD would not commit the dollars on what they saw as a fools errand. Stock market value has killed countless companies.
However, I agree completely with your prediction of the future of AS. When that happens AS will lose any value to the flying public and will be absorbed (most likely by DL) or another airline.
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Old Mar 15, 2019, 12:20 am
  #99  
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Originally Posted by ashill


Isnt UA flying lie flat F to Hawaii mostly an operational consideration, where it simply makes sense for them to route an internationally configured bird to Hawaii on certain flights and/or seasonally for a variety of reasons, largely related to fleet utilization and capacity (of course with ETOPS constraints)?


I don't know enough about UA to answer that. It's usually available though. OGG and LIH on the 752 seems a little sporadic (seasonality of international routes would explain it -- they refer to that config as the "international configuration", though, really with a range of under 4500 miles they are probably limited to shorter TATL flights, unless they have premium routes to central or south america too?)

HNL on the 772 seems consistently available though.

Honestly, from the West coast, the east coast and Hawaii are more or less equidistant. I'm not sure why Hawaii is not considered premium. It's not like there is any shortage of rich retirees scooting back and forth between Hawaii and the mainland... you'd think that they could sell those seats. At the nicer resorts in Hawaii your hotel folio can make your first class airfare look like a drop in the bucket. Those $16 frozen drinks really add up...
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Old Mar 15, 2019, 7:59 am
  #100  
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Originally Posted by ashill


Isnt UA flying lie flat F to Hawaii mostly an operational consideration, where it simply makes sense for them to route an internationally configured bird to Hawaii on certain flights and/or seasonally for a variety of reasons, largely related to fleet utilization and capacity (of course with ETOPS constraints)? I dont know UA well, but certainly thats the case with AA. When you get a lie flat seat on a route that doesnt always have it, its marketed and priced as domestic First (or regional Business in the case of Caribbean flights). AS using Airbus planes in the VX configuration is basically the same but the fleet is the way it is for a different reason.

As with transcons, that doesnt mean you shouldnt take advantage of it when you can. But UA isnt making fleet or pricing decisions based on putting lie flat seats on Hawaii flights (or any flights other than the premium transcons and long haul international), are they? Of course, AS has no long haul configurations, so in the long term they wont have a better F product getting subbed in for operational reasons.
It also makes sense for them to run a heavy jet to/from the islands when they have a cargo contract that makes everything they're selling above the cargo floor incidental to the cash cow under the passenger floor.
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Old Mar 15, 2019, 8:04 am
  #101  
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garbage product
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Old Mar 15, 2019, 8:52 am
  #102  
 
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[QUOTE=VegasGambler;30889250. Those $16 frozen drinks really add up...[/QUOTE]

OK wait a second, it's one thing to be critical of an airline or their service, it is completely a different thing to be critical of my $16 frozen drinks. That's a line not to be crossed!
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Old Mar 15, 2019, 8:54 am
  #103  
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Originally Posted by jsguyrus
OK wait a second, it's one thing to be critical of an airline or their service, it is completely a different thing to be critical of my $16 frozen drinks. That's a line not to be crossed!
I wouldn't be paying $16 for them if I didn't like them...

Is this thread over yet?
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Old Mar 15, 2019, 8:55 am
  #104  
 
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I love reading all the posts from the angry VX fans. Reminds me the posts from the angry Air Tran fans that flooded the WN board a few years ago.
ashill and Flying for Fun like this.
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Old Mar 15, 2019, 9:23 am
  #105  
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And now the ex-VXers (like me) are comparing AS to WN.

But AS is not that bad. I will never fly WN again. I'll fly AS in the right circumstances.
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