eponymous_coward

Much more of AS's flying is PDX-SAN stage length than JFK-SFO stage length (even now that they are flying out of California, where NYC is a more important market for LAX/SFO). This is presumably why they optimized their F cabins for that rather than refit the entire fleet for pmVX F standards or fly a premium transcon subfleet. That might be the wrong optimization, but arguing and complaining about this for the 465474635th time in the AS forum is getting rather old.

Lake_Hood

They have entire revenue management teams that make these decisions and factor that in (including demand, what has been sold, and what they project to sell). Additionally, I am just a mere Alaska gold this year, but anecdotally, I usually find Alaska the cheapest option in first on transcons flights out of SFO/LAX and from my observation, its generally not close. This isn't necessarily true out of Seattle, but I am not sure how much lie flat transcon (other than Jet Blue and occasionally Delta?) there is out of Seattle. As others have mentioned Alaska competes very well with the other legacy's standard domestic first class product.

If I didn't have the loyalty program or care about price, I would not chose Alaska for transcon flying in first. With just 2 minutes of research (just searching your route on google flights will tell you who has a lie flat product), its pretty obvious their product is inferior. As previously mentioned, from what I have seen, its usually reflected in the price.

eponymous_coward

Upgradeable transcon fares (with blue U and everything) are actually a thing out of SFO/LAX that I've seen. Presumably once the pmVX airplanes get additional F seats there will be more of them.

cmd320

Yes, however it isn’t relevant. OP’s complaint is about the product offered on JFK-SFO, and what is offered by the competition on this route is the benchmark. AS is years behind what is offerd by every single other airline flying this route.

eponymous_coward

Right. Which the airline is perfectly fine with, having announced that decision some time ago (thought it appears that long time members of FT either are unaware of this like the OP, or want to relitigate this as the typical FlyerTalk Executive Vice Presidents of Revenue Management and In Flight Product).

nomad420

If you restrict comments only to this route this is absolutely true. This is UA PS route ( SFO_EWR and LAX -EWR , I assume you include all NYC hubs) and you can't really compare products. It is apples and oranges, or should I say cider and champagne.

RichardInSF

No, no, I paid what I usually pay for J on other transcons, about $650 -- that's what I mean by 'full fare.' I generally book quite far in advance so I get the lowest published J fare.

I don't remember, as noted just above, it was booked far in advance. Probably a combination of the right departure time and not being EWR.

cmd320

Right, but that’s what this thread is about. A customer paid full fare F to fly AS from JFK-SFO and is unhappy with the offering, and rightly so. It’s terrible. Now, the customer should have done better research beforehand, however it seems as though he or she knows that now.

VegasGambler

First, this thread is about transcon routes.

DL is one product that I can't comment on, because I've never flown them. I have flown both UA and AA in paid F in non-lieflats and IMO the product is better than AS. Pitch is not worth much if the seat is uncomfortable.

And, yes, getting PDBs is important. So is getting a snack box from the back if you want one. In F I expect to be able to get something if it's on the plane. That's what I'm paying for. It's called "service". First class is more than just economy with wider seats.

Well of course, the race to the bottom is profitable. But that doesn't mean that if you don't join that race you are not sustainable.

So you think that AS should copy DLs FFP? Or is the frequent flyer program sacrosanct and not subject to the same economic laws as the hard product?

Once AS destroys their FFP (it can't be long until the bean counters get their hands on it) they are done. They will be left with the same short-haul product and FFP as their competition, and a worse transcon/hawaii product, and a worse network. In other words, zero reason to fly them. It's going to be quite the show on this forum when AS goes to a revenue-based FFP and MVPGs start earning 1000 miles on those $127 transcons instead of 5000... get your popcorn ready!

Colin

so many people say "full fare" on FlyerTalk when the just mean a "paid fare" as opposed to an "award ticket" or an "upgraded ticketed"

milypan

CDKing

I wish i had enough money that i can just pay pay whatever without even a 2 second google search to see what i'm paying for.

VegasGambler

Ohhh.... that's not what "full fare" means

To avoid future misunderstanding, "full fare" generally refers to unrestricted (refundable) tickets. On AS, full fare first class is an "F" booking code. You got a ticket with a "P" booking code.

What you are referring to is usually just called "paid first class" (that is, you paid for a first class seat, as opposed to getting upgraded to one)

$650 is still too much to pay for AS F IMO, so I feel your pain, but not as much as if you had paid $2000.

s0ssos

Wait, where are there people who get to apply GGUs?

(I presume you know there is very poor availability)
I find it right now very often I get upgraded within that 24 hour period, but prior there was no availability with GGU period. Alaska is hoping people buy those tickets. I think they should look at their data and figure out that nobody buys it at the last minute, and just let people use GGUs

s0ssos

So I just looked it up. Non-stop business from SFO to JFK for a random date in April is $700. AS $700 consistently for all times, DL, AA, B9 vary widely $700 to $1400+

If OP had just looked at a particular date/time it might have been the same price for AS and B9. But in general it is obvious AS is cheaper.