Waitlisted

UAPremierExec

Reading these comments has me missing Air Tran A Plus Rewards...

xliioper

Southwest is both revenue-based earn and spend. The fact that they have a different points multipliers for different types of fares doesn't change the fact that points are earned on the basis of spend, not miles flown (AS has different points multipliers as well for higher fare classes).

Toshbaf

The quotes in the original post are not quite accurate. True, EWR-SEA is about 2300-2400 miles credit and just over 1000 on other carriers. However, the person paying high fares are likely MVP or higher so there's at least a 50% bonus or more. Also some transcons are low yield, like JFK, where $99-$150 each way are common. Some are slightly higher (more expensive), like PHL-SEA. Frequent flyers will sometimes fly the lower yielding routes, like JFK.

In short, mileage based gives AS an advantage to an airline which is at a disadvantage. AS versus DL, AS is better at mileage, possibly subjective FA demeanor, bag guarantee, while DL is better at a small meal on selected transcon, seat back IFE, more domestic routes to accrue miles (like Savannah, Cincinnati, Hartford, Albany, LaGuardia, Madison, etc.), wide body aircraft. Upgrade chances are variable.

VegasGambler

If Alaska were to go to a purely revenue based frequent flyer program I'd have no reason to fly them at all.

After a year of removing almost everything that sets them apart from everyone else (waived change fees 60 days out, fare difference credit when price drops, lack of basic economy) all that's left is a distance-based ffp with waived change fees for mid-to-high end elites.

If you remove that too they are just AA/UA/DL without the network, the partners, or the premium product on premium routes. I don't see how they can continue to exist if they just become a worse version of the competition.

bmvaughn

I don't follow your logic why someone paying for a higher fare is necessarily an MVP.

This feels like it's more self-reflective than anything

jsguyrus

I guess the assumption is the only reason to pay a higher fare is if you have elite status. Obviously that is not 100%, some will pay the higher fare for the ability to have a $125 change fee, or perhaps a premium seat, but mostly it would be someone with status. What does anyone without status get by paying a main cabin fare, other than the ability to change (for an additional fee)?

VegasGambler

Saver fares often have advance purchase restrictions. Only 3 days on some routes, but on others there is no saver fare with less than a 14 day restriction. That will force a lot of people into Main fares, whether they like it or not.

Inventory restrictions can also make saver unavailable. Only certain fare classes are the underlying class for published saver fares (which ones depend on the route) but once those are all gone (whether bought as saver or as main) you can't buy a saver fare any more. Also on days with expected heavy load they may not ever make any cheap fare classes available, so saver may never be available at all.

Some people might pay for premium (but not first). That is actually my behavior on domestic airlines where I don't have status. It's usually (but unfortunately not always) cheaper to buy main and pay for the premium seat than to buy saver and pay for it (ie, the cost difference of premium seat selection is usually more than the buy-up to main)

Also, re: changes, on a shuttle route, buying a cheap main fare at an inconvenient time and planning to pay the $25 same-day change fee might be cheaper than buying the saver fare at the time that you actually want to fly.

jsguyrus

I think the nature of this argument is that you have a choice to purchase saver if you wish. Clearly, if saver fares are sold out it would not apply.

VegasGambler

I thought it was about people who would be paying higher fares (and therefore earning more miles in a theoretical revenue-based system).

My point is that there are lots of reasons. You may need or want the flexibility. You may want a premium seat or a first class seat and be willing to pay for it. You may book last minute travel for whatever reason, and saver fares may be unavailable to you.

I actually think that non-elites tend to pay higher fares than elites, because they tend to travel less, and only travel during really busy travel times (holidays when everyone else is traveling) and fares are just higher then. If you only fly twice a year, you are not an elite, and you are probably flying for Thanksgiving and Christmas, and paying 2-3x the "regular" fare. Also, you probably don't care too much about miles. Maybe you will redeem a free trip every few years, but most likely you will just forget about the miles and let them expire (if you even sign up for a FF account in the first place)

StephanP37

Honestly its the culture that is shown here that creates extreme loyalty and satisfaction. The other airlines will never get that and thats why consistently Alaskas company culture and service is far above any other option. I'd never even dream of looking anywhere other than alaska airlines site or app and this mentality and loyalty is exactly why well done!

chrisl137

There's really a lot of variability there - I probably am usually paying higher fares than non-elites because I rarely book more than two weeks out, and often less than one week out. I had a few years on UA when I had enough EQD for platinum but my EQM were halfway between silver and gold. Leisure travelers often book many months out and spend time looking for discounts, while business travelers are more likely to be schedule driven rather than cost driven.

As far as "revenue based" MP, I posted in another thread that the extra cost to get full elite benefits can be considered like EQD, but the flyer gets the choice of whether to pay it for a given flight. On one of the US3 you have to either pay more for your flights or get a waiver to get enough EQD to get status. AS gives you the status with miles (and RDM also with the miles), but then gives you the choice at the back end whether to pay the dollars to qualify for your benefits on a given flight. For a short flight like SEA-PDX or LAX/BUR-SJC there's not much reason to. For a midcon or a transcon, the upcharge to use your elite benefits is generally less than you'd pay to upgrade to an extra legroom seat on the US3, and AS throws in a pretty reasonable chance of an upgrade to F, too.