AS overbooks F again, pol gets to keep F...
Jan 29, 2019, 12:59 am
#16
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IME, AS sends out an email asking for volunteers in this case. If nobody volunteers, the last pax to buy F (or upgrade) get the downgrade or reroute.
Jan 29, 2019, 1:06 am
#17
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No, I don’t mean that at all. Sure, he sat in the seat. But he could only keep that seat if the airline allowed him to do so. Why did they agree to that? Did they just say “well gee, he’s already in that seat, let’s just leave him be and boot this poor lady off instead?” Do you know?
Jan 29, 2019, 2:31 am
#18
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I only saw this when it hit one of the blogs. So, thoughts:
(1) Starting off with this: Kasich did not cover himself in glory here, but our only version of the fact pattern is from someone who (as noted before) is a professional performer who has an incentive to make everyone else look bad above and beyond the "usual".
(2) Both pilots and, at least previously, Sky Marshals had the ability to get plopped in F at the last minute. There was a problem with the latter over on VX a few years back where IIRC someone got kicked from F on a sold-out flight on a peak travel day and reaccommodation really wasn't possible (I want to say this was out of DAL). However, that was at least an at-the-gate bump and not an on-the-plane bump.
(3) How this went down is an open question, particularly if Kasich also paid for F (something which we'll probably never know). At least on DL, I've run into pilots back in exit rows (IIRC this was during the Irma evacuation flights out of MCO), but they might have also taken a voluntary downgrade due to the situation. That, at least, was an "everyone put their best foot forward" situation and the flight was MCO-ATL. In this case, however...well, it's JFK-SFO, so I can see that not being an option.
Let's ignore that it's Kasich for a moment, and instead say it's John Doe. If John Doe paid for a seat in F, has a seat assignment in F, and still has said assignment when he's walking down the jetway...and then gets "asked" to downgrade (whether to a PE product or, as Klausner seems to have claimed, bog standard economy)? We have a problem, it may be an unresolvable one, and IMO it is on the airline (which probably needs to have a cutoff time for crew seats that can displace a passenger).
Something occurs to me: Again, presuming that F was sold out as paid, why didn't Alaska ask for volunteers (with the choice of downgrading with compensation, some sort of included meal, and paid-class credit), a later flight with compensation, meal coverage, and protection on any onward flights, or some sort of "dealer's choice")? Looking at this from my perspective, if I have any sort of flexibility in my plans then I almost always have my price (though it might involve a wacky routing or somesuch).
Edit: One other thought: It seems very clear that starting with "Got bumped off my flight by Kasich" meant the lady was going for headlines if she could.
(1) Starting off with this: Kasich did not cover himself in glory here, but our only version of the fact pattern is from someone who (as noted before) is a professional performer who has an incentive to make everyone else look bad above and beyond the "usual".
(2) Both pilots and, at least previously, Sky Marshals had the ability to get plopped in F at the last minute. There was a problem with the latter over on VX a few years back where IIRC someone got kicked from F on a sold-out flight on a peak travel day and reaccommodation really wasn't possible (I want to say this was out of DAL). However, that was at least an at-the-gate bump and not an on-the-plane bump.
(3) How this went down is an open question, particularly if Kasich also paid for F (something which we'll probably never know). At least on DL, I've run into pilots back in exit rows (IIRC this was during the Irma evacuation flights out of MCO), but they might have also taken a voluntary downgrade due to the situation. That, at least, was an "everyone put their best foot forward" situation and the flight was MCO-ATL. In this case, however...well, it's JFK-SFO, so I can see that not being an option.
Let's ignore that it's Kasich for a moment, and instead say it's John Doe. If John Doe paid for a seat in F, has a seat assignment in F, and still has said assignment when he's walking down the jetway...and then gets "asked" to downgrade (whether to a PE product or, as Klausner seems to have claimed, bog standard economy)? We have a problem, it may be an unresolvable one, and IMO it is on the airline (which probably needs to have a cutoff time for crew seats that can displace a passenger).
Something occurs to me: Again, presuming that F was sold out as paid, why didn't Alaska ask for volunteers (with the choice of downgrading with compensation, some sort of included meal, and paid-class credit), a later flight with compensation, meal coverage, and protection on any onward flights, or some sort of "dealer's choice")? Looking at this from my perspective, if I have any sort of flexibility in my plans then I almost always have my price (though it might involve a wacky routing or somesuch).
Edit: One other thought: It seems very clear that starting with "Got bumped off my flight by Kasich" meant the lady was going for headlines if she could.
Jan 29, 2019, 8:04 am
#19
Join Date: Sep 2016
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Like Kasich, I am a non-governor citizen, I feel like I should try this is on every flight and see what happens.
Jan 29, 2019, 9:13 am
#20
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,832
Kasich didn't just "stay in first," he stole another passenger's seat. Your selective storytelling doesn't change the actual facts.
Jan 29, 2019, 12:11 pm
#21
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No, I don’t mean that at all. Sure, he sat in the seat. But he could only keep that seat if the airline allowed him to do so. Why did they agree to that? Did they just say “well gee, he’s already in that seat, let’s just leave him be and boot this poor lady off instead?” Do you know?
Jan 29, 2019, 1:13 pm
#22
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There are generally three sides to every story. In this case, we have only heard hers and a weak response from his people. Maybe she saw more value in getting off the plane and jumping on Twitter.
Jan 29, 2019, 2:07 pm
#23
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I agree with this, the link that was on the start of this thread is an article of a twitter (or some other social media) post which is one sided. Of all the decades I have flown with Alaska, I really have never seen them allow someone to sit in First who is not supposed to be in First maybe others have had different experiences. I have received numerous e-mails on flights SEA-OGG or PDX-OGG or SEA-DCA that have asked for volunteers to be downgraded. From what this post appears to allude to was that a pilot was being placed into First and "my" experience has been that upgrades get downgraded first followed by GGU or award travel; not full paid first unless the entire cabin was full paid first. So if the former Governor was being asked to move to PE, then my guess was he was on a mileage or award pass; however if was paid first, then "maybe" he didn't poach the seat but was put there instead.....I have no idea, but again, have a hard time believing that crew would allow that. I would be interested if someone else was on the flight (even crew members) that could fill that piece in.
Jan 29, 2019, 2:23 pm
#24
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If you've ever watched Julie Klausner's show "Difficult People" and seen how her character acts, this could have turned out really poorly. Instead, she seems to have taken the high road (at least at the beginning of the tweet storm on #seatgate ) and seems happy to have been put on a later Alaska flight. Kasich looks like the jerk here. I think he is one, but whatever.
Jan 29, 2019, 4:06 pm
#25
Join Date: Jan 2017
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Posts: 108
I only saw this when it hit one of the blogs. So, thoughts:
(1) Starting off with this: Kasich did not cover himself in glory here, but our only version of the fact pattern is from someone who (as noted before) is a professional performer who has an incentive to make everyone else look bad above and beyond the "usual".
(2) Both pilots and, at least previously, Sky Marshals had the ability to get plopped in F at the last minute. There was a problem with the latter over on VX a few years back where IIRC someone got kicked from F on a sold-out flight on a peak travel day and reaccommodation really wasn't possible (I want to say this was out of DAL). However, that was at least an at-the-gate bump and not an on-the-plane bump.
(3) How this went down is an open question, particularly if Kasich also paid for F (something which we'll probably never know). At least on DL, I've run into pilots back in exit rows (IIRC this was during the Irma evacuation flights out of MCO), but they might have also taken a voluntary downgrade due to the situation. That, at least, was an "everyone put their best foot forward" situation and the flight was MCO-ATL. In this case, however...well, it's JFK-SFO, so I can see that not being an option.
Let's ignore that it's Kasich for a moment, and instead say it's John Doe. If John Doe paid for a seat in F, has a seat assignment in F, and still has said assignment when he's walking down the jetway...and then gets "asked" to downgrade (whether to a PE product or, as Klausner seems to have claimed, bog standard economy)? We have a problem, it may be an unresolvable one, and IMO it is on the airline (which probably needs to have a cutoff time for crew seats that can displace a passenger).
Something occurs to me: Again, presuming that F was sold out as paid, why didn't Alaska ask for volunteers (with the choice of downgrading with compensation, some sort of included meal, and paid-class credit), a later flight with compensation, meal coverage, and protection on any onward flights, or some sort of "dealer's choice")? Looking at this from my perspective, if I have any sort of flexibility in my plans then I almost always have my price (though it might involve a wacky routing or somesuch).
Edit: One other thought: It seems very clear that starting with "Got bumped off my flight by Kasich" meant the lady was going for headlines if she could.
(1) Starting off with this: Kasich did not cover himself in glory here, but our only version of the fact pattern is from someone who (as noted before) is a professional performer who has an incentive to make everyone else look bad above and beyond the "usual".
(2) Both pilots and, at least previously, Sky Marshals had the ability to get plopped in F at the last minute. There was a problem with the latter over on VX a few years back where IIRC someone got kicked from F on a sold-out flight on a peak travel day and reaccommodation really wasn't possible (I want to say this was out of DAL). However, that was at least an at-the-gate bump and not an on-the-plane bump.
(3) How this went down is an open question, particularly if Kasich also paid for F (something which we'll probably never know). At least on DL, I've run into pilots back in exit rows (IIRC this was during the Irma evacuation flights out of MCO), but they might have also taken a voluntary downgrade due to the situation. That, at least, was an "everyone put their best foot forward" situation and the flight was MCO-ATL. In this case, however...well, it's JFK-SFO, so I can see that not being an option.
Let's ignore that it's Kasich for a moment, and instead say it's John Doe. If John Doe paid for a seat in F, has a seat assignment in F, and still has said assignment when he's walking down the jetway...and then gets "asked" to downgrade (whether to a PE product or, as Klausner seems to have claimed, bog standard economy)? We have a problem, it may be an unresolvable one, and IMO it is on the airline (which probably needs to have a cutoff time for crew seats that can displace a passenger).
Something occurs to me: Again, presuming that F was sold out as paid, why didn't Alaska ask for volunteers (with the choice of downgrading with compensation, some sort of included meal, and paid-class credit), a later flight with compensation, meal coverage, and protection on any onward flights, or some sort of "dealer's choice")? Looking at this from my perspective, if I have any sort of flexibility in my plans then I almost always have my price (though it might involve a wacky routing or somesuch).
Edit: One other thought: It seems very clear that starting with "Got bumped off my flight by Kasich" meant the lady was going for headlines if she could.
Jan 29, 2019, 5:02 pm
#26
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Twitter's having a field day with this with stuff like John Kasich, still encroaching women's rights.
Jan 29, 2019, 7:13 pm
#27
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So if AS has to downgrade someone, does the bumper only sit in that person's seat or do they reshuffle seats due to contract/operational reasons where the desired seat & lowest on the downgrade list's seat are not the same?
Seems the Twittee is concluding that because Kasich sat in her previously assigned seat, he was poaching & was supposed to be downgraded rather than he was moved to a new seat by AS.
Seems the Twittee is concluding that because Kasich sat in her previously assigned seat, he was poaching & was supposed to be downgraded rather than he was moved to a new seat by AS.
Jan 29, 2019, 7:24 pm
#28
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It's happened to me twice on Alaska since the Virgin merger(on fully paid tickets) and seems to be something that AS does as a policy. I got a free fruit and cheese plate and I think like 5,000 miles each time as well as a difference between the two tickets price(at time of purchase, which I think is questionable, as the difference is considerably more day of flight IMO). It's not terrible, but it's a crappy feeling to be actually boarding and get the news.
On the other hand, there's really no excuse. This is, sadly, what you get when an airline used to comping people into F suddenly inherits an F cabin worth paying up front for (as VX's cabin was). If I had to guess, AS' computers are presuming that they'll have at least a quarter of the cabin (possibly half) free for at-gate use (either for comp-ups or company use) and that just ain't happening with an 8-seat cabin that's the best "regular domestic F" cabin (as opposed to a separately-branded cabin [Delta One/Polaris] or a three-cabin situation [American Flagship First]). Really, they need to do something about this issue.
Jan 29, 2019, 7:52 pm
#29
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,832
So if AS has to downgrade someone, does the bumper only sit in that person's seat or do they reshuffle seats due to contract/operational reasons where the desired seat & lowest on the downgrade list's seat are not the same?
Seems the Twittee is concluding that because Kasich sat in her previously assigned seat, he was poaching & was supposed to be downgraded rather than he was moved to a new seat by AS.
Seems the Twittee is concluding that because Kasich sat in her previously assigned seat, he was poaching & was supposed to be downgraded rather than he was moved to a new seat by AS.
Unless you have evidence to the contrary ... which you do not. Wishful thinking is not evidence.
Jan 29, 2019, 8:09 pm
#30
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You can make up "alternative facts" all you want, but you have no basis to ignore (or dispute) the facts as they have been presented to us: "The passenger they downgraded to economy was John Kasich, who just finished serving 8 years as Governor of Ohio and who sought the Republican nomination for President in 2016. Only Governor Kasich didn’t leave the first class cabin, he sat down in another passenger’s seat instead."
Unless you have evidence to the contrary ... which you do not. Wishful thinking is not evidence.
Unless you have evidence to the contrary ... which you do not. Wishful thinking is not evidence.