Unauthorized Cancelation of AS Asian Award Reservation
#46
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
I didn't mean to be pedantic. My point (perhaps not clear) was... is a cancelled HU award ticket necessarily released back to award space? It's been stated that it isn't for CX... but, is it for HU?
I don't understand the scam if it isn't, but, if it is, I could see an illegal broker doing it in order to free up space and immediately book an award seat, when they have a client requesting that flight.
I don't understand the scam if it isn't, but, if it is, I could see an illegal broker doing it in order to free up space and immediately book an award seat, when they have a client requesting that flight.
#47
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
You seem to take this very personally and react emotionally. I suggest you focus on getting home and in the end, ask AS to make you whole by dumping 100,000 miles into your account. Yes, it is a bad situation, but in the end, it is just air travel, not a true life and death situation.
#48
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,286
#50
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Between SFO and STS
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold, United Serf, Delta Gold
Posts: 731
I didn't mean to be pedantic. My point (perhaps not clear) was... is a cancelled HU award ticket necessarily released back to award space? It's been stated that it isn't for CX... but, is it for HU?
I don't understand the scam if it isn't, but, if it is, I could see an illegal broker doing it in order to free up space and immediately book an award seat, when they have a client requesting that flight.
I don't understand the scam if it isn't, but, if it is, I could see an illegal broker doing it in order to free up space and immediately book an award seat, when they have a client requesting that flight.
#51
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
Any chance you might have used the same log-in for your Alaska account on other sites? There's an article on SF Gate today when an AA flyer lost 138,500 miles, since restored, and suspects the culprits got his log-in information from one of his other accounts.
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/articl...s-13511459.php
My Alaska log-in is unique to Alaska, but seems like every day we read new stories of database hacks across various web sites ranging from shopping sites to travel sites.
So how did this happen in the first place?
Here's how Luten summarizes what he thinks happened in a post about it on his blog: "Hacker found my email address and a password as part of some data breach (like Marriott's). They tried that password in a variety of sites and found that the email/password combo worked with American. They then ran a Craigslist ad or something for cheap car rentals and hotels (with a burner phone, of course), someone paid the hacker cash, hacker made award bookings in that person's name using my miles, and job done. It would be the recipient of the fraudulent award that gets arrested, not the hacker."
Here's how Luten summarizes what he thinks happened in a post about it on his blog: "Hacker found my email address and a password as part of some data breach (like Marriott's). They tried that password in a variety of sites and found that the email/password combo worked with American. They then ran a Craigslist ad or something for cheap car rentals and hotels (with a burner phone, of course), someone paid the hacker cash, hacker made award bookings in that person's name using my miles, and job done. It would be the recipient of the fraudulent award that gets arrested, not the hacker."
My Alaska log-in is unique to Alaska, but seems like every day we read new stories of database hacks across various web sites ranging from shopping sites to travel sites.
#52
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 733
Any chance you might have used the same log-in for your Alaska account on other sites? There's an article on SF Gate today when an AA flyer lost 138,500 miles, since restored, and suspects the culprits got his log-in information from one of his other accounts.
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/articl...s-13511459.php
My Alaska log-in is unique to Alaska, but seems like every day we read new stories of database hacks across various web sites ranging from shopping sites to travel sites.
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/articl...s-13511459.php
My Alaska log-in is unique to Alaska, but seems like every day we read new stories of database hacks across various web sites ranging from shopping sites to travel sites.
#53
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 733
Monday PST has come and gone and my emails to the Eliott-listed Alaska contacts sent on Friday have gone unresponded. I also haven't heard back on whether HU opened space, which is likely a bad sign.
The complete apathy from Alaska MileagePlan on this is really mind-boggling.
The complete apathy from Alaska MileagePlan on this is really mind-boggling.
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
Monday PST has come and gone and my emails to the Eliott-listed Alaska contacts sent on Friday have gone unresponded. I also haven't heard back on whether HU opened space, which is likely a bad sign.
The complete apathy from Alaska MileagePlan on this is really mind-boggling.
The complete apathy from Alaska MileagePlan on this is really mind-boggling.
If your insurance will cover you, you may be able to just buy a ticket back home. If AS won't reimburse you for it, the insurance might.
Definitely look into the terms and conditions to be sure, but this might be another option, if you don't want to risk the expense yourself.
#55
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delta, BC
Posts: 1,645
Do you have travel insurance? I know that you are not based in the US, but so much as paying the fees of an award ticket with a card like the CSR makes the trip covered. Cancellation insurance is up to $5k with that card, I think (maybe $10k?).
If your insurance will cover you, you may be able to just buy a ticket back home. If AS won't reimburse you for it, the insurance might.
Definitely look into the terms and conditions to be sure, but this might be another option, if you don't want to risk the expense yourself.
If your insurance will cover you, you may be able to just buy a ticket back home. If AS won't reimburse you for it, the insurance might.
Definitely look into the terms and conditions to be sure, but this might be another option, if you don't want to risk the expense yourself.
#56
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 733
Do you have travel insurance? I know that you are not based in the US, but so much as paying the fees of an award ticket with a card like the CSR makes the trip covered. Cancellation insurance is up to $5k with that card, I think (maybe $10k?).
If your insurance will cover you, you may be able to just buy a ticket back home. If AS won't reimburse you for it, the insurance might.
Definitely look into the terms and conditions to be sure, but this might be another option, if you don't want to risk the expense yourself.
If your insurance will cover you, you may be able to just buy a ticket back home. If AS won't reimburse you for it, the insurance might.
Definitely look into the terms and conditions to be sure, but this might be another option, if you don't want to risk the expense yourself.
#57
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 733
We are now two days before when I was originally supposed to start the journey home based on my original ticket. Alaska MileagePlan had asked me to wait five days to see if Hainan Airlines would open the requested space (the same space I originally booked). Unfortunately, but unsurprisingly, these five days have passed and Alaska MileagePlan has confirmed Hainan Airlines did not open any space.
When I called I again explained for the third time that they had rebooked me terminating in Calgary, arriving a day late, and that I am supposed to be terminating in Vancouver. I live in Vancouver.
The agent on this call was really outstanding compared to all of the previous calls and I plan to write in a positive commendation. This was the first call on this issue where the tone was friendly and caring (and where they didn't talk over me). She expressed sympathy over both the cancellation and the runaround I had been getting. Interestingly, this time she liaised with partner desk separately instead of transferring me, so it was a lot of her asking me something or me asking her something and then she'd go on hold to liaise with the decision maker.
She responded they couldn't get me to Vancouver because Alaska doesn't fly YYC -YVR, it's West Jet and West Jet doesn't do AS awards (lol). I clarified that they could consider YYC - SEA - YVR. She came back instead suggesting routing on the same day as my original ticket but she eventually realized in her proposal that the most important leg, the transpacific flight, would be in economy.
Luckily I have access to a computer at my hotel's business centre and had used expertflyer and the AS website to also look at possible options. I found space entirely in business class getting me to Seattle on the same day as the original ticket, just missing the SEA-YVR part (EF showed no saver availability). I fed the agent the routing into Seattle and she put me on hold, came back confirming she could do it and also with an onwards flight in F from SEA to YVR. I'm guessing someone authorized allowing to use A space just to make it work as D was shown as unavailable in EF.
She was able to pass on the ticket for ticketing as the backend process on it was going to take a long time. It's been an hour but I eagerly await getting the confirmation email once it is fully ticketed. Really preying this one doesn't also get cancelled.
It's a bit odd nobody else saw this routing or anything similar, I'm guessing AS didn't put much effort in their searching. I searched all of the US and Canada Hainan destinations. Of course, the space could have magically just appeared, so I can't fault them for not having found it.
In 59 minutes we got to a solution (compared to 4 hours on previous calls with no acceptable solution)! I arrive same-day as before, even though leaving a day later (I originally booked to be able to use Hainan's free hotel on my layover and also fly their longhaul product domestically on my return). I lose the free hotel, I have to book my own for the additional night in Guangzhou, and I lose some time in the sky in Hainan's impressive domestic product (yes, it is actually quite nice and I wanted the extra flights). But I am absolutely happy to (hopefully) have this now resolved at minimal out of pocket expense (just the additional night's hotel booked last minute).
Currently happy
When I called I again explained for the third time that they had rebooked me terminating in Calgary, arriving a day late, and that I am supposed to be terminating in Vancouver. I live in Vancouver.
The agent on this call was really outstanding compared to all of the previous calls and I plan to write in a positive commendation. This was the first call on this issue where the tone was friendly and caring (and where they didn't talk over me). She expressed sympathy over both the cancellation and the runaround I had been getting. Interestingly, this time she liaised with partner desk separately instead of transferring me, so it was a lot of her asking me something or me asking her something and then she'd go on hold to liaise with the decision maker.
She responded they couldn't get me to Vancouver because Alaska doesn't fly YYC -YVR, it's West Jet and West Jet doesn't do AS awards (lol). I clarified that they could consider YYC - SEA - YVR. She came back instead suggesting routing on the same day as my original ticket but she eventually realized in her proposal that the most important leg, the transpacific flight, would be in economy.
Luckily I have access to a computer at my hotel's business centre and had used expertflyer and the AS website to also look at possible options. I found space entirely in business class getting me to Seattle on the same day as the original ticket, just missing the SEA-YVR part (EF showed no saver availability). I fed the agent the routing into Seattle and she put me on hold, came back confirming she could do it and also with an onwards flight in F from SEA to YVR. I'm guessing someone authorized allowing to use A space just to make it work as D was shown as unavailable in EF.
She was able to pass on the ticket for ticketing as the backend process on it was going to take a long time. It's been an hour but I eagerly await getting the confirmation email once it is fully ticketed. Really preying this one doesn't also get cancelled.
It's a bit odd nobody else saw this routing or anything similar, I'm guessing AS didn't put much effort in their searching. I searched all of the US and Canada Hainan destinations. Of course, the space could have magically just appeared, so I can't fault them for not having found it.
In 59 minutes we got to a solution (compared to 4 hours on previous calls with no acceptable solution)! I arrive same-day as before, even though leaving a day later (I originally booked to be able to use Hainan's free hotel on my layover and also fly their longhaul product domestically on my return). I lose the free hotel, I have to book my own for the additional night in Guangzhou, and I lose some time in the sky in Hainan's impressive domestic product (yes, it is actually quite nice and I wanted the extra flights). But I am absolutely happy to (hopefully) have this now resolved at minimal out of pocket expense (just the additional night's hotel booked last minute).
Currently happy
#59
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 733
I totally recognize it's a first world problem to be "stranded" at a Ritz Carlton in China, let alone to be stranded because I don't want to be forced to fly economy on a business class ticket. Worse things could happen. If push came to shove I'd just buy an Aeroplan ticket or revenue ticket in economy. It sucks to have someone else forcibly change your vacation plans for you, but travel requires flexibility (both time and $$$).
I fault AS for not having proper safeguards and for not handling this situation appropriately, but at the end of the day, I'm alive, relatively healthy, and I can get into the jacuzzi to decompress. There's not much more I could than I did, especially behind the great firewall where my VPN disconnects between every 3 and 60 minutes.
Ultimately this thread is a warning to others about this issue. Check your award tickets involving any Chinese airports on the days leading up to departure, including before going to the airport. You may not get any email about the cancellation. If this happens to you, you're not the first, and probably not the last; you probably weren't hacked or individually targetted. Don't let AS tell you to hire a lawyer to file a police report in a foreign country. AS will do the bare minimum to fix your ticket, so start immediately looking for rerouting options yourself or they will send you to the wrong city on the wrong day and tell you that's the best they can do. There is no way to escalate above supervisor; corporate contacts did not bother responding.
It sucks, and is totally unacceptable, but isn't so surprising when not a single one of the agents I spoke to could get even close to pronouncing Guangzhou or Shenzhen or Haikou. There's an inherent limitation of an almost exclusively US airline, that does not travel to other continents on their own metal but issues award tickets on a dozen foreign carriers, in their ability to understand issues that aren't happening in the USA. Time for bed...
#60
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 65
I wonder what info they track when a booking is cancelled. For my tech friends, would it be plausible that Alaska has access to the IP address the booking was cancelled from? Would something like that at least show if it was cancelled in a different city than Nazdoom's hotel, or a different country for that matter. Some other info Alaska might track when you cancel on-line?
- Change your passwords to your accounts
- Did you share any of the flight details they could use to cancel the account on social media? Anywhere they could have access?
- Did you try and do anything (selecting seats, booking, changing seats, checking status) on a public machine? A hotel business center?