AS at Dallas Love Field (DAL)
Dec 29, 2018, 10:11 pm
#46
Join Date: Jun 2004
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You may not be aware of some obscure airports like FLL, MDW and LGA, but I assure you that WN does indeed compete in the Dallas-Chicago, Dallas-New York and Dallas-Greater Miami markets.
Oh yeah, there is this other airline based in Dallas that has hubs in Miami, New York and Chicago. Damned if I can remember the name though. Can someone help me out?
Dec 29, 2018, 10:30 pm
#47
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You may not be aware of some obscure airports like FLL, MDW and LGA, but I assure you that WN does indeed compete in the Dallas-Chicago, Dallas-New York and Dallas-Greater Miami markets.
Oh yeah, there is this other airline based in Dallas that has hubs in Miami, New York and Chicago. Damned if I can remember the name though. Can someone help me out?
That is exactly what Southwest thought when it served New York City by Islip but later realized that didn't cut it.
Similarly, Alaska may find that DAL to EWR or ORD might be a good market to try. I'm not so certain that MIA would be that good.
The limiting factor is the two gates. They have to maximize the assets. That's just like Paine Field in Everett. Eventually, they'll find out what makes money and what doesn't. With Paine Field, I wouldn't be surprised if eventually it is all 737-900ER service.
Dec 29, 2018, 10:34 pm
#48
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E175, with a handful of empty seats in back, but 7 FC seats empty.
Though with SkyWest flying it, there is less overhead, so maybe it's enough. This is my go to flight, so hope it sticks around, love the E175
Dec 29, 2018, 10:34 pm
#49
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Dec 29, 2018, 10:43 pm
#50
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That is exactly what United thought when it left JFK! They were aware of some airport like EWR. They later admitted that it was a mistake.
That is exactly what Southwest thought when it served New York City by Islip but later realized that didn't cut it.
Similarly, Alaska may find that DAL to EWR or ORD might be a good market to try. I'm not so certain that MIA would be that good.
The limiting factor is the two gates. They have to maximize the assets. That's just like Paine Field in Everett. Eventually, they'll find out what makes money and what doesn't. With Paine Field, I wouldn't be surprised if eventually it is all 737-900ER service.
That is exactly what Southwest thought when it served New York City by Islip but later realized that didn't cut it.
Similarly, Alaska may find that DAL to EWR or ORD might be a good market to try. I'm not so certain that MIA would be that good.
The limiting factor is the two gates. They have to maximize the assets. That's just like Paine Field in Everett. Eventually, they'll find out what makes money and what doesn't. With Paine Field, I wouldn't be surprised if eventually it is all 737-900ER service.
They saw that Dallas-Austin was going for a premium (like much of intra Texas at close to and often OVER $100 each way, on sale for $81
)AA was getting the price, WN was doing even better, and Virgin decided to do DAL-AUS. Maybe people just didn't know, but that was a huge flop.
Their IT was not on the ball either, as (some) people were flying dirt cheap LGA-DAL via SFO and racking up some serious status points.
Sir Richard Branson was quite a presence on Dallas local TV for just a bit when he was trying to get DAL, but for weeks if not months pax would truck on out to DFW not realizing they were supposed to be at DAL.
Dec 30, 2018, 10:10 am
#51
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Emailkid is basically right. It’s not like VX and AS didn’t actually try to make DAL work going east or with different destinations like AUS or LAS. It’s that with zero mindshare out of East Coast cities and 2 gates vs. 16 (or DFW) they will always be bit players in Dallas compared to WN and AA. Picking random places to fly like BDL or cities where other carriers are much larger like NYC/MIA/CHI is just asking to get killed. At least at AS focus cities or hubs you can offer a good package of destinations and potential feed from your market share on the other side of the route.
Dec 30, 2018, 2:09 pm
#52
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My initial thought when I saw this DAL expansion was that AS was going to offer super cheap Hawaii fares via SEA, SFO, and SAN to undercut WN’s Hawaii operation.
Dec 30, 2018, 8:23 pm
#54
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I mean to say that DAL as part of a package of places like LAX, SEA, Hawaii, Mexico, EWR, BAL, etc. isn’t... terrible.
Dec 31, 2018, 9:47 am
#55
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 366
There are some that don't prefer MDW, LGA, or FLL.
Locals would know more but I think the ORD market over the MDW market is small. This includes those from Rockford and northern Chicago suburbs, like Niles.
EWR does have a big market that prefers EWR to LGA. Those from West Orange, Saddle River, Morristown, and much most of Northern New Jersey.
MIA does have a market that prefers MIA to FLL, mostly the city of Miami but not Broward County.
So, DAL-EWR seems like the biggest market of the three over competing airports that are served by WN. One problem is that only O&D would fly the route. Not many from SEA, PDX, SFO, SJC, LAX, or SAN would want to fly to EWR via DAL.
Locals would know more but I think the ORD market over the MDW market is small. This includes those from Rockford and northern Chicago suburbs, like Niles.
EWR does have a big market that prefers EWR to LGA. Those from West Orange, Saddle River, Morristown, and much most of Northern New Jersey.
MIA does have a market that prefers MIA to FLL, mostly the city of Miami but not Broward County.
So, DAL-EWR seems like the biggest market of the three over competing airports that are served by WN. One problem is that only O&D would fly the route. Not many from SEA, PDX, SFO, SJC, LAX, or SAN would want to fly to EWR via DAL.
I do like the idea of DAL-ORD - it's shorter than DAL-east coast (and less risk), many prefer ORD over MDW and AS services ORD, and still large enough of a market and not too niche, but AS would rather just stick to a strategy of it's west coast markets to DAL. At this point, it's out of strategy.
I'm more intrigued with the need to service DFW and DAL at the same time. I'm kind of surprised it can't just consolidate at DAL.
Dec 31, 2018, 10:08 am
#56
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(2) “won’t” is AA code-shares and international feed (yes, a bone of contention for us in the FT community, but from an overall market standpoint probably far more significant to the airline as a business entity)
Dec 31, 2018, 11:05 am
#57
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
Join Date: Feb 2005
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(1) “can’t” is mainly gates, as has been discussed almost ad infinitum upthread
(2) “won’t” is AA code-shares and international feed (yes, a bone of contention for us in the FT community, but from an overall market standpoint probably far more significant to the airline as a business entity)
(2) “won’t” is AA code-shares and international feed (yes, a bone of contention for us in the FT community, but from an overall market standpoint probably far more significant to the airline as a business entity)
Dec 31, 2018, 1:22 pm
#58
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They are used to flying to DFW. I am surprised that business flyers don't jump on DAL, as it's closer to downtown Dallas (Fort Worth, not so much), and Plano area is probably better served by DFW.
Flew SEA-DAL just this Friday on E175, and while coach was almost full, FC was only half full. Apparently not too many frequent flyers on this plane (and I suspect route).
Dec 31, 2018, 1:40 pm
#59
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Yup... upgrade list on the SEA-DFW flights are 50-60 long but SEA-DAL is only about 12 long or less now in the off season... we are now seeing empty seats!
Jan 20, 2019, 5:38 pm
#60
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New Delta and Alaska court filings responding to City's proposal
Apparently there are some additional court filings that occurred Friday in the three-way fight at Love Field, with Alaska and Delta responding to the City's proposal to use Alaska gates to accommodate Delta.
See this article:
https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/n...est-delta.html
Delta is suspicious of Alaska's recent expansion plans, and Alaska is like, "stay off my lawn". Haha. It's interesting that Alaska finds DAL that lucrative or necessary (I'm definitely happy about their proposed expanded flight options). Is this a case of sticking Delta in the eye, or does Alaska have serious long term plans for Dallas?
See this article:
https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/n...est-delta.html
Delta is suspicious of Alaska's recent expansion plans, and Alaska is like, "stay off my lawn". Haha. It's interesting that Alaska finds DAL that lucrative or necessary (I'm definitely happy about their proposed expanded flight options). Is this a case of sticking Delta in the eye, or does Alaska have serious long term plans for Dallas?