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Alaska Expanding at Dallas Love Field (DAL)

Alaska Expanding at Dallas Love Field (DAL)

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Old Dec 29, 18, 10:11 pm
  #46  
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post


You may not be aware of some obscure airports like FLL, MDW and LGA, but I assure you that WN does indeed compete in the Dallas-Chicago, Dallas-New York and Dallas-Greater Miami markets.

Oh yeah, there is this other airline based in Dallas that has hubs in Miami, New York and Chicago. Damned if I can remember the name though. Can someone help me out?
I think it's Murcan with a hard "C"
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Old Dec 29, 18, 10:30 pm
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post


You may not be aware of some obscure airports like FLL, MDW and LGA, but I assure you that WN does indeed compete in the Dallas-Chicago, Dallas-New York and Dallas-Greater Miami markets.

Oh yeah, there is this other airline based in Dallas that has hubs in Miami, New York and Chicago. Damned if I can remember the name though. Can someone help me out?
That is exactly what United thought when it left JFK! They were aware of some airport like EWR. They later admitted that it was a mistake.
That is exactly what Southwest thought when it served New York City by Islip but later realized that didn't cut it.
Similarly, Alaska may find that DAL to EWR or ORD might be a good market to try. I'm not so certain that MIA would be that good.

The limiting factor is the two gates. They have to maximize the assets. That's just like Paine Field in Everett. Eventually, they'll find out what makes money and what doesn't. With Paine Field, I wouldn't be surprised if eventually it is all 737-900ER service.
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Old Dec 29, 18, 10:34 pm
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Originally Posted by dayone View Post
VX couldn't make eastern flights work. There is little hope of an AS resurrection.

If I were betting on additional DAL cities, and I'm not, I'd go with SNA and SMF.
They are not making SEA-DAL work, at least not tonight.

E175, with a handful of empty seats in back, but 7 FC seats empty.

Though with SkyWest flying it, there is less overhead, so maybe it's enough. This is my go to flight, so hope it sticks around, love the E175
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Old Dec 29, 18, 10:34 pm
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post

Oh yeah, there is this other airline based in Dallas that has hubs in Miami, New York and Chicago. Damned if I can remember the name though. Can someone help me out?
I know! I know!

Braniff
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Old Dec 29, 18, 10:43 pm
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Originally Posted by Toshbaf View Post
That is exactly what United thought when it left JFK! They were aware of some airport like EWR. They later admitted that it was a mistake.
That is exactly what Southwest thought when it served New York City by Islip but later realized that didn't cut it.
Similarly, Alaska may find that DAL to EWR or ORD might be a good market to try. I'm not so certain that MIA would be that good.

The limiting factor is the two gates. They have to maximize the assets. That's just like Paine Field in Everett. Eventually, they'll find out what makes money and what doesn't. With Paine Field, I wouldn't be surprised if eventually it is all 737-900ER service.
Virgin did try:

They saw that Dallas-Austin was going for a premium (like much of intra Texas at close to and often OVER $100 each way, on sale for $81 )

AA was getting the price, WN was doing even better, and Virgin decided to do DAL-AUS. Maybe people just didn't know, but that was a huge flop.

Their IT was not on the ball either, as (some) people were flying dirt cheap LGA-DAL via SFO and racking up some serious status points.

Sir Richard Branson was quite a presence on Dallas local TV for just a bit when he was trying to get DAL, but for weeks if not months pax would truck on out to DFW not realizing they were supposed to be at DAL.
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Old Dec 30, 18, 10:10 am
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Emailkid is basically right. It’s not like VX and AS didn’t actually try to make DAL work going east or with different destinations like AUS or LAS. It’s that with zero mindshare out of East Coast cities and 2 gates vs. 16 (or DFW) they will always be bit players in Dallas compared to WN and AA. Picking random places to fly like BDL or cities where other carriers are much larger like NYC/MIA/CHI is just asking to get killed. At least at AS focus cities or hubs you can offer a good package of destinations and potential feed from your market share on the other side of the route.



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Old Dec 30, 18, 2:09 pm
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
At least at AS focus cities or hubs you can offer a good package of destinations and potential feed from your market share on the other side of the route.
My initial thought when I saw this DAL expansion was that AS was going to offer super cheap Hawaii fares via SEA, SFO, and SAN to undercut WNs Hawaii operation.
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Old Dec 30, 18, 6:57 pm
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Hi -

If they do, it would make for a good MR.
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Old Dec 30, 18, 8:23 pm
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Originally Posted by wolfpacktrojan View Post


My initial thought when I saw this DAL expansion was that AS was going to offer super cheap Hawaii fares via SEA, SFO, and SAN to undercut WNs Hawaii operation.
I doubt it; they would be cutting their own throats by picking up cheap connecting traffic and spurning better local traffic.

I mean to say that DAL as part of a package of places like LAX, SEA, Hawaii, Mexico, EWR, BAL, etc. isnt... terrible.
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Old Dec 31, 18, 9:47 am
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Originally Posted by Toshbaf View Post
There are some that don't prefer MDW, LGA, or FLL.

Locals would know more but I think the ORD market over the MDW market is small. This includes those from Rockford and northern Chicago suburbs, like Niles.

EWR does have a big market that prefers EWR to LGA. Those from West Orange, Saddle River, Morristown, and much most of Northern New Jersey.

MIA does have a market that prefers MIA to FLL, mostly the city of Miami but not Broward County.

So, DAL-EWR seems like the biggest market of the three over competing airports that are served by WN. One problem is that only O&D would fly the route. Not many from SEA, PDX, SFO, SJC, LAX, or SAN would want to fly to EWR via DAL.
If AS were to introduce DAL-EWR, WN would immediately find a way to squeeze that route in, and fares between EWR and DAL/DFW would plummet as well. WN originally wanted to service that route, but when VX announced DAL-LGA, WN decided to not service DAL-EWR and instead run a higher frequency service (than originally anticipated) to LGA. This in effect made it all the more difficult for VX.

I do like the idea of DAL-ORD - it's shorter than DAL-east coast (and less risk), many prefer ORD over MDW and AS services ORD, and still large enough of a market and not too niche, but AS would rather just stick to a strategy of it's west coast markets to DAL. At this point, it's out of strategy.

I'm more intrigued with the need to service DFW and DAL at the same time. I'm kind of surprised it can't just consolidate at DAL.
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Old Dec 31, 18, 10:08 am
  #56  
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Originally Posted by beyondhere View Post
... I'm more intrigued with the need to service DFW and DAL at the same time. I'm kind of surprised it can't just consolidate at DAL.
(1) cant is mainly gates, as has been discussed almost ad infinitum upthread
(2) wont is AA code-shares and international feed (yes, a bone of contention for us in the FT community, but from an overall market standpoint probably far more significant to the airline as a business entity)
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Old Dec 31, 18, 11:05 am
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Originally Posted by beyondhere View Post
I'm more intrigued with the need to service DFW and DAL at the same time. I'm kind of surprised it can't just consolidate at DAL.
Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
(1) cant is mainly gates, as has been discussed almost ad infinitum upthread
(2) wont is AA code-shares and international feed (yes, a bone of contention for us in the FT community, but from an overall market standpoint probably far more significant to the airline as a business entity)
Yup. Two different markets. DFW is AA connections and larger metro market and DAL is O&D for Dallas local (city) market.
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Old Dec 31, 18, 1:22 pm
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Originally Posted by beyondhere View Post
.....

I'm more intrigued with the need to service DFW and DAL at the same time. I'm kind of surprised it can't just consolidate at DAL.
People are creatures of habit.

They are used to flying to DFW. I am surprised that business flyers don't jump on DAL, as it's closer to downtown Dallas (Fort Worth, not so much), and Plano area is probably better served by DFW.

Flew SEA-DAL just this Friday on E175, and while coach was almost full, FC was only half full. Apparently not too many frequent flyers on this plane (and I suspect route).
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Old Dec 31, 18, 1:40 pm
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Yup... upgrade list on the SEA-DFW flights are 50-60 long but SEA-DAL is only about 12 long or less now in the off season... we are now seeing empty seats!
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Old Jan 20, 19, 5:38 pm
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New Delta and Alaska court filings responding to City's proposal

Apparently there are some additional court filings that occurred Friday in the three-way fight at Love Field, with Alaska and Delta responding to the City's proposal to use Alaska gates to accommodate Delta.
See this article:
https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/n...est-delta.html

Delta is suspicious of Alaska's recent expansion plans, and Alaska is like, "stay off my lawn". Haha. It's interesting that Alaska finds DAL that lucrative or necessary (I'm definitely happy about their proposed expanded flight options). Is this a case of sticking Delta in the eye, or does Alaska have serious long term plans for Dallas?
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