Suggestions for AS to Regain Its Mojo
Dec 21, 2018, 5:58 pm
#61
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
I dunno, the actual experience is still better than AA and UA when you take into account the staff (phone, airport, in-flight) are still mostly pleasant, and reasonably empowered to help when needed. That said, this is my first and now only year as MVPG - I've made no effort to requalify, as ex-SFO I haven't been able to use a single GGU this year flying to PHL, EWR, MCO, WAS. This doesn't mean I won't fly Alaska, or even prefer them all things similar, but I also don't feel an incentive to be especially loyal.
My negatives for 2018 -
* GGUs difficult to use on longer flights
* Paid first class fares out of line with competitors
* Partner earnings have gotten weak (I fly EI SFO-DUB somewhat regularly, and am earning 50% EQM max)
My positives:
* Staff are top tier (other domestic airlines in that category IME are DL, B6)
* Wait times for elites of any kind at the airport or on the phone are very reasonable
* Those chocolate bars they keep giving me are delicious
At this point I just shop AS, B6 and DL, and pick on schedule, price (in that order). FWIW, I'm AS MVPG, DL Silver, B6 Nothing. I just don't really have an incentive to be loyal, maybe I just don't fly enough.
My negatives for 2018 -
* GGUs difficult to use on longer flights
* Paid first class fares out of line with competitors
* Partner earnings have gotten weak (I fly EI SFO-DUB somewhat regularly, and am earning 50% EQM max)
My positives:
* Staff are top tier (other domestic airlines in that category IME are DL, B6)
* Wait times for elites of any kind at the airport or on the phone are very reasonable
* Those chocolate bars they keep giving me are delicious
At this point I just shop AS, B6 and DL, and pick on schedule, price (in that order). FWIW, I'm AS MVPG, DL Silver, B6 Nothing. I just don't really have an incentive to be loyal, maybe I just don't fly enough.
So, next year, I think I will pay more to fly AS, but will never a admit outside of an anonymous forum.
Dec 23, 2018, 12:22 pm
#62
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Seattle
Programs: AS MM, MVPGold100k, Hilton Diamond, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 1,475
+1 on your on-plane suggestions, to which I'd add ground opps: keep working on the boarding process. Do we really need separate announcements for "anyone needing extra time, active duty military, Russell Wilson or people wearing his jersey, etc? If you want to tip the hat to service members, just board them with First. I'd also suggest they eliminate "battlefield promotions" by closing out F and upgrading those at the top of the list *before* boarding. Keep it efficient, people. Also, you should *never* have a plane trying to pull into a gate but unable to because there's no staff there. If you don't have enough staff to hit this goal, you don't have enough staff...
Our boarding process will start in 5 minutes, will all those that need extra time please line up here, will all those with strollers and children under two please line up here. Will those in the military please be ready to board right after them.
I see so many families no where near ready to board when called, it takes them 10 minutes to gather up all their stuff before trying to squeeze through those crowding the gate. It would be nice if they were actually ready to go when called. Who knows, if they managed boarding better they might have time for the PDBs!
Dec 23, 2018, 1:40 pm
#63
Join Date: Aug 2018
Programs: AA Exec Plat, Bonvoy Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 621
- Improve the international travel experience. Lounge access and priority checkin/boarding privileges on partners is haphazard - and, largely, nonexistent. This is the #1 thing that keeps me loyal to DL - I fly abroad a lot, and having zero privileges when I fly a partner like SQ is a real shock to the system. I fly for perks, not mileage redemptions, so Mileage Plan is effectively useless for me outside the lower 48.
- Slow the inevitable march toward LCC-dom. AS really screwed up when they started shoving everyone’s bag into a sizer with exactly 1/8” of margin on each side. The rollout of saver fares is going to be fast and furious, too. It seems like they are so focused on capturing and retaining the legacy VX audience that they’ve forgotten it only takes an occasional annoyance to drive frequent travelers across the terminal to a competitor.
- Fix the lounges. Once upon a time, soup and pancakes were novel. Now, there isn’t even a lounge in SFO, a major hub, and the overcrowded SEA lounges aren’t worth a visit in an airport containing the Centurion and Sky Club. Not that they’d let me anyway now that the PP partnership is dead. But I’d never voluntarily go into an AS lounge now unless I had no other options or needed IROPS help.
- Make Guest Upgrades meaningful. These things should be a “I really don’t want to sit in coach” token you can spend 1-2 times in the program year, like a Delta Regional Upgrade is. My AS certs will expire mostly unused for the second year in a row, because the combination of an affordable buy up to an eligible fare and U inventory is basically nonexistent on many routes. I wish you could waitlist them and go to a priority gate queue; I’m fine with not confirming everything at booking all the time, but some sort of jump the line certificate is a valuable bonus.
- Fix the catering. The food choices and quality, the lack of full PDB - it’s all so bad. I’m not asking for much here, just something a little more competitive with other domestic airlines.
- Baggage allowance. AS gets none of my work travel because of the Max 2 bags, Max 50 lbs rule. I could work with 3x50 or 2x70, but it’s ridiculous that even top tier elites don’t get a waiver here. Delta offers 3x70 to Diamond, and I pay them a nice fat premium for the dubious privilege of connecting in SLC when traveling with my tools as a result. I really would have liked to take the SEA-OKC direct this year, but the baggage allowance issue lost AS that business.
- Slow the inevitable march toward LCC-dom. AS really screwed up when they started shoving everyone’s bag into a sizer with exactly 1/8” of margin on each side. The rollout of saver fares is going to be fast and furious, too. It seems like they are so focused on capturing and retaining the legacy VX audience that they’ve forgotten it only takes an occasional annoyance to drive frequent travelers across the terminal to a competitor.
- Fix the lounges. Once upon a time, soup and pancakes were novel. Now, there isn’t even a lounge in SFO, a major hub, and the overcrowded SEA lounges aren’t worth a visit in an airport containing the Centurion and Sky Club. Not that they’d let me anyway now that the PP partnership is dead. But I’d never voluntarily go into an AS lounge now unless I had no other options or needed IROPS help.
- Make Guest Upgrades meaningful. These things should be a “I really don’t want to sit in coach” token you can spend 1-2 times in the program year, like a Delta Regional Upgrade is. My AS certs will expire mostly unused for the second year in a row, because the combination of an affordable buy up to an eligible fare and U inventory is basically nonexistent on many routes. I wish you could waitlist them and go to a priority gate queue; I’m fine with not confirming everything at booking all the time, but some sort of jump the line certificate is a valuable bonus.
- Fix the catering. The food choices and quality, the lack of full PDB - it’s all so bad. I’m not asking for much here, just something a little more competitive with other domestic airlines.
- Baggage allowance. AS gets none of my work travel because of the Max 2 bags, Max 50 lbs rule. I could work with 3x50 or 2x70, but it’s ridiculous that even top tier elites don’t get a waiver here. Delta offers 3x70 to Diamond, and I pay them a nice fat premium for the dubious privilege of connecting in SLC when traveling with my tools as a result. I really would have liked to take the SEA-OKC direct this year, but the baggage allowance issue lost AS that business.
I wish JetBlue had won the bidding for VX for a few reasons, including that VX+JetBlue would have provided an actual east+west coast airline, instead of just duplicating a lot of the west coast routes.
Dec 23, 2018, 3:08 pm
#64
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
As someone who came over from VX, it's not like they're really doing a great job of making us happy either, IMO. They're slowly but surely nuking a lot of the creature comfort perks that VX had: on-demand on-screen ordering, free food in MCS/Premium, etc. And I can't imagine VX ever allowing something like the seat renumbering cluster.... from October/November to happen.
I wish JetBlue had won the bidding for VX for a few reasons, including that VX+JetBlue would have provided an actual east+west coast airline, instead of just duplicating a lot of the west coast routes.
I wish JetBlue had won the bidding for VX for a few reasons, including that VX+JetBlue would have provided an actual east+west coast airline, instead of just duplicating a lot of the west coast routes.
Dec 23, 2018, 9:22 pm
#65
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SFO, mostly
Posts: 2,203
Initially, I felt the same, but, now, I think the merger has been great, at least from my perspective. With B6, as a prior VX Gold, would never have had the benefit of an initial AS match to discover some of the value of their program, which I had never been privy to before (used AA for OW benefits). As a tranpac flyer, the AS takeover has been fabulous! I only hope it gets better with their, hopefully, CX OW feeder relationship.
Dec 23, 2018, 11:57 pm
#66
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,953
As someone who came over from VX, it's not like they're really doing a great job of making us happy either, IMO. They're slowly but surely nuking a lot of the creature comfort perks that VX had: on-demand on-screen ordering, free food in MCS/Premium, etc. And I can't imagine VX ever allowing something like the seat renumbering cluster.... from October/November to happen.
I wish JetBlue had won the bidding for VX for a few reasons, including that VX+JetBlue would have provided an actual east+west coast airline, instead of just duplicating a lot of the west coast routes.
I wish JetBlue had won the bidding for VX for a few reasons, including that VX+JetBlue would have provided an actual east+west coast airline, instead of just duplicating a lot of the west coast routes.
Dec 24, 2018, 6:17 am
#67
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,844
Virgin's west coast network was SFO-LAX/SAN/LAS/PSP/SEA/PDX and LAX-LAS/SEA/PDX. That's not that much of a west coast network. JetBlue already flies LGB-SFO/SEA/PDX/LAS. So Virgin brought a couple new west coast routes to the network. How does this make it an "actual east+west coast airline"?
That said, I am glad it didn’t happen as it would be too much of a distraction and was too high a price to pay at the peak of the economic cycle. Better to have less debt with rising interest rates and much greater uncertainty as to the direction of the economy and the stock market. B6 ended up getting lucky on this one—even if in the end the acquisition ends up helping AS.
Dec 24, 2018, 7:38 am
#68
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: SEA
Programs: AS MVP , Delta Gold Medallion, "Credit Card" status for various hotels
Posts: 672
I find the premise of this thread confusing, mainly because I don’t see why Alaska has any need to change from its current form. I’m as frustrated as anyone by the negative changes that have slowly trickled out, and have responded with less “blind loyalty” to Alaska.
Still, Alaska Airlines and Mileage Plan policies are moving in the same negative direction as the industry. The glory days of multiple US partners, easy partner availability, low fare guarantee, no basic economy, etc etc are over. However, Alaska’s unofficial motto of “We suck less than the others” still applies with its mileage based accrual, no $$ required for status, etc.
While I appreciate the constructive nature of the thread, I don’t think those that run the airline think there is any need to gain “mojo” back. So long as the airline is profitable and the industry continues to move gradually in a customer unfriendly direction, this is a new normal that we need to adjust to.
Still, Alaska Airlines and Mileage Plan policies are moving in the same negative direction as the industry. The glory days of multiple US partners, easy partner availability, low fare guarantee, no basic economy, etc etc are over. However, Alaska’s unofficial motto of “We suck less than the others” still applies with its mileage based accrual, no $$ required for status, etc.
While I appreciate the constructive nature of the thread, I don’t think those that run the airline think there is any need to gain “mojo” back. So long as the airline is profitable and the industry continues to move gradually in a customer unfriendly direction, this is a new normal that we need to adjust to.
Dec 24, 2018, 8:57 am
#69
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
I find the premise of this thread confusing, mainly because I don’t see why Alaska has any need to change from its current form. I’m as frustrated as anyone by the negative changes that have slowly trickled out, and have responded with less “blind loyalty” to Alaska.
Still, Alaska Airlines and Mileage Plan policies are moving in the same negative direction as the industry. The glory days of multiple US partners, easy partner availability, low fare guarantee, no basic economy, etc etc are over. However, Alaska’s unofficial motto of “We suck less than the others” still applies with its mileage based accrual, no $$ required for status, etc.
While I appreciate the constructive nature of the thread, I don’t think those that run the airline think there is any need to gain “mojo” back. So long as the airline is profitable and the industry continues to move gradually in a customer unfriendly direction, this is a new normal that we need to adjust to.
Still, Alaska Airlines and Mileage Plan policies are moving in the same negative direction as the industry. The glory days of multiple US partners, easy partner availability, low fare guarantee, no basic economy, etc etc are over. However, Alaska’s unofficial motto of “We suck less than the others” still applies with its mileage based accrual, no $$ required for status, etc.
While I appreciate the constructive nature of the thread, I don’t think those that run the airline think there is any need to gain “mojo” back. So long as the airline is profitable and the industry continues to move gradually in a customer unfriendly direction, this is a new normal that we need to adjust to.
Not an Airline industry analyst, but it has always seemed to me the miles programs had rewarded the wrong kind of behavior, such as the lowest revenue per pax mile, which is contrary to the very metric most likely predictive of an Airline's future viability. DL has got it right, and have, more or less, cut out lots of the cheesers. UA & AA then followed; there's no reason for AS to be leaps and bounds better--they just need to be a little better. After the VX acquisition, they had better stabilize shareholder value & make the thing work, or they're all out of the job, as they should be.
If your competitor is pricing something at $100, only need to undercut by, say, 5%, not 50%.
Dec 24, 2018, 10:08 am
#70
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Seattle
Programs: Alaska airlines 100k
Posts: 923
Good points, all around.
Not an Airline industry analyst, but it has always seemed to me the miles programs had rewarded the wrong kind of behavior, such as the lowest revenue per pax mile, which is contrary to the very metric most likely predictive of an Airline's future viability. DL has got it right, and have, more or less, cut out lots of the cheesers. UA & AA then followed; there's no reason for AS to be leaps and bounds better--they just need to be a little better. After the VX acquisition, they had better stabilize shareholder value & make the thing work, or they're all out of the job, as they should be.
If your competitor is pricing something at $100, only need to undercut by, say, 5%, not 50%.
Not an Airline industry analyst, but it has always seemed to me the miles programs had rewarded the wrong kind of behavior, such as the lowest revenue per pax mile, which is contrary to the very metric most likely predictive of an Airline's future viability. DL has got it right, and have, more or less, cut out lots of the cheesers. UA & AA then followed; there's no reason for AS to be leaps and bounds better--they just need to be a little better. After the VX acquisition, they had better stabilize shareholder value & make the thing work, or they're all out of the job, as they should be.
If your competitor is pricing something at $100, only need to undercut by, say, 5%, not 50%.
In short I think they are doing very well at the basics - they have reasonable schedule and destinations. They have very reasonable pricing considering it’s not a bare basic carrier. They get me to my destination very reliably on time and safely. They block, run , and pass and kick (using sporting terms) very well. All the rest with regards to creature comforts is a bonus. Please keep in mind that they are transporting hundreds of people in a metal tube going hundreds of miles per hour at 30K feet in the air!!!!
Do you get more from some of the legacy’s with regards to partnerships and foreign travel- yes. But you pay a premium for this and often it is unreliable. Do you get more from AS from comfort of travel and convenience compared to the bare basics such as southwest, yes and you pay slightly more generally speaking on average. AS may just need to be comfortable in slow and deliberate growth that is intentional and based upon need as opposed to wants. I recall they used to only have 1 round trip daily to Chicago. Now they have at least 4 direct from SEA to ORD and this doesn’t even count the flexibility if you consider PDX and a commuter connect or MKE to SEA alternative.
Dec 24, 2018, 5:01 pm
#71
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: SFO
Posts: 487
I find the premise of this thread confusing, mainly because I don’t see why Alaska has any need to change from its current form. I’m as frustrated as anyone by the negative changes that have slowly trickled out, and have responded with less “blind loyalty” to Alaska.
Still, Alaska Airlines and Mileage Plan policies are moving in the same negative direction as the industry. The glory days of multiple US partners, easy partner availability, low fare guarantee, no basic economy, etc etc are over. However, Alaska’s unofficial motto of “We suck less than the others” still applies with its mileage based accrual, no $$ required for status, etc.
While I appreciate the constructive nature of the thread, I don’t think those that run the airline think there is any need to gain “mojo” back. So long as the airline is profitable and the industry continues to move gradually in a customer unfriendly direction, this is a new normal that we need to adjust to.
Still, Alaska Airlines and Mileage Plan policies are moving in the same negative direction as the industry. The glory days of multiple US partners, easy partner availability, low fare guarantee, no basic economy, etc etc are over. However, Alaska’s unofficial motto of “We suck less than the others” still applies with its mileage based accrual, no $$ required for status, etc.
While I appreciate the constructive nature of the thread, I don’t think those that run the airline think there is any need to gain “mojo” back. So long as the airline is profitable and the industry continues to move gradually in a customer unfriendly direction, this is a new normal that we need to adjust to.
Dec 24, 2018, 5:28 pm
#72
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: sometimes, strangely, I find myself at home
Programs: I need to do better in managing my affiliations. Oops, I overshot the runway for status next year.
Posts: 649
Grinch says: The distance based mileage program is THE LAST REMAINING competitive advantage Alaska has over the big 3 (except Alaska now has introduced new higher prices/surcharge to use earned mileage plan benefits which devalues the distance only thing)
Dec 25, 2018, 12:41 am
#73
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: HNL
Programs: AS MVPG
Posts: 236
Well...I'd cite an employee base that doesn't hate coming to work every day as a big advantage. And a usable companion fare. To "regain" mojo, though, AS needs to figure out how to finish the merger without becoming a wannabe Big 3 airline. So far the outlook is iffy.
Last edited by finlandia; Dec 25, 2018 at 12:43 am Reason: Clarity
Dec 25, 2018, 11:11 am
#74
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SFO/SJC/OAK/STS
Programs: Alaska MVPG, Delta PM, AA EXP, Wannabe SkyWest 1K
Posts: 644
Perhaps those of us who are former MVPGs are reading this as "what can AS do to get my business back?", especially if we're not SEA/PDX/ANC based.
And the reality is the hard product for (mostly) paid F flyers just isn't there on the SFO/LAX transcons, except from DC. Already booked B6 Mint out of BOS and JFK, and the UA 781s out of EWR for a bunch of 2019 transcons. But there's no chance I'm paying for the 2-4-2 UA 772 paid F out of IAD, or worse the 752, or even worse, their 772 E+ with 10-abreast. So will still fly AS to DCA/IAD. Would also fly anything out of BUR to EWR/JFK/DC if they launched it.
Also an issue intra-California because of change fees and light schedules. Between WN and JetSuiteX, 19 flights a day OAK/CCR-BUR. I do this run 2-3x/month. Will still use AS to PSP, and it's a tossup OAK/SFO-SEA/PDX/SAN between them and WN.
Where AS does best from the Bay Area is midcons to DAL, AUS, MSY, and BNA. An E75 in F in the solo seat beats any 737 in F, so will still use AS there. In the case of MSY and BNA, there's little competition.
Financially, AS is strong because of the Alaska monopoly and high mkt share in SEA and PDX. And Dartboard Air's great service never translated into great economics, so understand they've got work to do in California. But at this point AS will need to up its game more, especially at SFO, where it's still not clear how they'll build a decent hub with 10% of the airport and high competition for both top-of-the-line hard products in F and UA elites.
And the reality is the hard product for (mostly) paid F flyers just isn't there on the SFO/LAX transcons, except from DC. Already booked B6 Mint out of BOS and JFK, and the UA 781s out of EWR for a bunch of 2019 transcons. But there's no chance I'm paying for the 2-4-2 UA 772 paid F out of IAD, or worse the 752, or even worse, their 772 E+ with 10-abreast. So will still fly AS to DCA/IAD. Would also fly anything out of BUR to EWR/JFK/DC if they launched it.
Also an issue intra-California because of change fees and light schedules. Between WN and JetSuiteX, 19 flights a day OAK/CCR-BUR. I do this run 2-3x/month. Will still use AS to PSP, and it's a tossup OAK/SFO-SEA/PDX/SAN between them and WN.
Where AS does best from the Bay Area is midcons to DAL, AUS, MSY, and BNA. An E75 in F in the solo seat beats any 737 in F, so will still use AS there. In the case of MSY and BNA, there's little competition.
Financially, AS is strong because of the Alaska monopoly and high mkt share in SEA and PDX. And Dartboard Air's great service never translated into great economics, so understand they've got work to do in California. But at this point AS will need to up its game more, especially at SFO, where it's still not clear how they'll build a decent hub with 10% of the airport and high competition for both top-of-the-line hard products in F and UA elites.
Dec 25, 2018, 11:35 am
#75
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: SFO
Posts: 487
I’m happy flying out of SFO as an MVPG, my comp upgrade to F has been 80%+ this year.