Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Alaska Airlines | Mileage Plan
Reload this Page >

Moving/Sharing My Business/Loyalty to/with Other Airlines

Moving/Sharing My Business/Loyalty to/with Other Airlines

Old Nov 1, 2018, 9:14 am
  #46  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Programs: Alaska Airlines MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 475
Originally Posted by jiburi
Sorry to see you go, but all understandable. Just to add a note, Alaska's partner JAL begins Seattle Tokyo service beginning 3/31/2019. Not quite sure whether partnership played a role in this new flight but surely helps.

Jiburi
It helps, but not much when JAL's fares are significantly higher than ANA's and all the affordable fares earn 30% miles on AS. I could get more mileage out of a trip to MCO.
IStream is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2018, 12:56 pm
  #47  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: BART Platinum, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 1,157
Originally Posted by bbison
It's terrible, but the what are the UA miles worth in comparison?
At this point I'd personally value them at parity, possibly even giving a slight nod to UA miles. I have little interest in Y redemptions, and even less faith in AS partner J availability.

Originally Posted by Flying for Fun
How does the RDM and "miles" required for a redemption compare? Can you please price out a JL F award SFO-DEL with international connecting flights from Canada, with a stopover in TYO for comparison? Thank you.
No I cannot, because that's not the comparison I'm making, and it's not an itinerary that I have any interest in flying. Furthermore, I suspect it could take a long time to find availability at a time that would work for me, which is the exact reason that I don't place a super high value on RDMs.

If status is more important than awards, your point is valid.
If your question is do I value 1 EQM more than 1 RDM, the answer is absolutely yes. It's not just me — the market values EQMs much more than RDMs. RDMs get handed out like candy; take a flight, swipe a credit card, make a service complaint, get a late bag, rent a car, rent a bike, stay at a hotel, buy something online, eat at a restaurant, and we'll give you RDMs! I could go on ad nauseam. EQMs, OTOH, only accrue with flying and, in limited cases (though not AS), very high credit card spend.

I get that many people on this forum are self-selecting onto AS because they value RDMs more than most. That's fine. But this is a discussion of people contemplating switching away from Mileage Plan. If you're thinking about leaving Mileage Plan, you probably don't assign an exceptionally high value to RDMs.

Originally Posted by jinglish
UA's premium cabin redemption values aren't as good as AS's, and of course you're not earning nearly as many miles on cheap economy tickets. But there's a decent bit of availability across *A, and the values aren't that much worse. A one-way saver award to Europe in J is 57.5k on UA or 70k on partners; those 135k awards are at the anytime level. And while those are certainly a poor value by comparison, they're at least an option if you have enough miles, while AS is solely at the mercy of partner saver inventory.
Right. I don't think it's fair to compare anytime awards to AS partner saver awards. If I'm willing to be very flexible with times and routings — as I would have to be with an AS partner award — I can likely find a paid J ticket to Europe for under $2500 RT. But if I want to travel at a time and place of my choosing, then I have to pay significantly more, whether in miles (which isn't an option on AS partners) or cash.
jinglish likes this.

Last edited by milypan; Nov 1, 2018 at 2:56 pm Reason: typo
milypan is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2018, 1:21 pm
  #48  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
Originally Posted by milypan
At this point I'd personally value them at parity, possibly even giving a slight nod to UA miles. I have little interest in Y redemptions, and even less faith in AS partner J
availability.
I guess a lot of this depends on how you want to redeem your miles, but for first class redemptions on top-quality airlines, I value AS miles as 1.5-2x UA miles.

My favorite city that I've ever been to is Tokyo. On AS, a first-class redemption on JAL to Tokyo is 70k miles, or 75k is you head on to somewhere else in Asia. With UA miles, you are looking at 110k for something of similar quality (ANA first class). With AS, you can do a stopover in each direction for free. With UA, it's 1 stopover subject to a bunch of extra rules with their "excursionist" benefit. JAL F awards are not that hard to find, either.

Similarly, you can do CX F to Hong Kong (admittedly, much harder to find) for 70k miles, also with a stopover.

I'm looking to book a trip where I go SFO - Tokyo, stay 4 days, Tokyo - BKK, stay 4 days, BKK - HKG, stay 4 days, and HKG - SFO. I can do that all in F for 145k AS miles, on top airlines. This is also an itinerary that would cost something like $20k to pay cash for, which is a lot more than I'm willing to spend. So, it's award travel or nothing for that itinerary. On UA you would have to spend miles for 3 one-way awards, and get 1 for free through excursionist. You are looking at... what? 250k miles? 300k?

Of course this is just one example, but this is exactly the kind of trip that I'm looking to spend my miles on. So, for me, it's not close. If you are looking to book other types of trips with your miles, it might be closer (although I don't think it's ever going to be equal value)
VegasGambler is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2018, 3:29 pm
  #49  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: DL Plat, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by BW Flyer
May be the bean counters in AS management have figured out that they can make more money selling cheapo basic economy fares to the masses who fly 2-3 times year, than trying to retain the loyalty of the much smaller crowd of elite flyers who easily spend $10K to $30K a year per person. Hence they thought why even showering that smaller crowd of elite flyers with benefits like U upgrades, They see the math, not me.
Yeah... considering the AUS-SEA flight I was on a week ago had 57 elites, I think you're underestimating the percentage of revenue elites possess. Elites average spend per ticket is also substantially more.

I also think you underestimate how easy it is to make a dumb decision in a large organization. It happens all the time. Likely, someone decided Alaska was wasting money by providing benefits Delta, American, and United do not. Whoever pitched/decided this obviously misunderstands why frequent flyers choose to fly what is really a glorified regional airline. Outside of West Coast routes, it is FARRR easier to fly Delta and by watering down their frequent flyer program, they are conceding really the only advantage they've got over Delta.

Delta has been whooping American and United for years. Now they're whooping Alaska, primarily because Alaska decided to get drunk on Keystone Ice before the fight.
formerstarQB16 is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2018, 4:08 pm
  #50  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
How long until free changes for elites go away as well? $200/change (what the big guys charge) is really a lot.
VegasGambler is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2018, 4:15 pm
  #51  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SEA
Programs: Hilton/Marriott Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 2,036
Originally Posted by VegasGambler
I'm looking to book a trip where I go SFO - Tokyo, stay 4 days, Tokyo - BKK, stay 4 days, BKK - HKG, stay 4 days, and HKG - SFO. I can do that all in F for 145k AS miles, on top airlines. This is also an itinerary that would cost something like $20k to pay cash for, which is a lot more than I'm willing to spend. So, it's award travel or nothing for that itinerary. On UA you would have to spend miles for 3 one-way awards, and get 1 for free through excursionist. You are looking at... what? 250k miles? 300k?
UA does have the Excursionist Perk, where if you book a round trip or open jaw, you're entitled to a free award flight in the same cabin in the destination region. But the flight has to be within that region, so NRT-BKK wouldn't qualify.
jinglish is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2018, 4:56 pm
  #52  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Berkeley, CA
Programs: UA Silver, Southwest A-List, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 818
Originally Posted by VegasGambler
How long until free changes for elites go away as well? $200/change (what the big guys charge) is really a lot.
Well, for MVP Gold and higher and only on non-saver (BE) fares, right? I'm going to guess (purely speculatively though) that change preserved the benefit as it should generate incremental revenue for the buy up from Saver, at least as it starts to roll out.
FlyingBear is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2018, 5:04 pm
  #53  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
Originally Posted by jinglish
UA does have the Excursionist Perk, where if you book a round trip or open jaw, you're entitled to a free award flight in the same cabin in the destination region. But the flight has to be within that region, so NRT-BKK wouldn't qualify.
Would BKK-HKG qualify? If not, I could re-order the cities that I visit (so that one of the asia legs is intra-region)

My point here though is, even with excursionist, this is going to cost about 2x the miles on UA. Again, just one example, but that free stopover in EACH direction, along with the much lower mileage cost per segment, really adds up.

Which is not to say that AS does not have restrictions as well (only one partner per direction) but overall I see AS miles as a much better deal. Also... they are MUCH easier to get. You can fly round-trip SFO-JFK (or EWR) for $250-ish, and that's 5500 miles + status bonus. A $250 fare on UA is going to earn you 1250 miles + status bonus.

There are some good values on partners too, although pretty much only on J or F tickets. But I look at something like 3x RDM and 2x EQM on Condor J as a ridiculously good deal, especially considering that you are doing it in comfort (you can get 5500-ish mile J tickets for as cheap as $1100 -- that's 16,500 RDM).

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: at this point, AS has two advantages over the big 3:

1. No change fee for gold+
2. Earn way more miles, and have each mile be a lot more valuable (this is a multiplicative effect)

And of course we all know the disadvantages (network, lack of premium product for premium routes)

So you have to decide what's more important to you.
VegasGambler is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2018, 6:10 pm
  #54  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MIA
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 493
I went from UA -> AA -> AS as each of the programs degraded / went revenue based. I fly 150K miles/year in discount F/J so it's pretty easy to qualify for MVP75. I am however seriously considering going back to UA. For these reasons:

- As a 1K the 11x on revenue is comparable to AS miles earning. eg a $4000 RT to Europe equals flying BA with AS bonuses.
- UA Every Day F redemptions are 50K and 30% cheaper than virtually all AS F redemptions at 70K.
- There are still plenty of Saver F redemptions for 25K reserved for elites.
- S* network to Europe is far superior, especially for closein J redemptions on LH vs. BA surcharges + paid seat assignment.
- BA now does not let you change discount business tickets - it's cancel and get taxes back only.
- Paid F is generally far cheaper than AS.
- There's a lounge at SFO.
- Massive route network from SFO. eg I need to go to MIA/FLL every couple of months.
- I have a ton of AS miles and I think they will devalue soon and the CX sweet spot will disappear.
- This complete disappearance of U is just ridiculous.

I am however going to stick with AS for 1 more year and see how it goes. Mainly for:

- Nicer people than UA. Yes still, and by far.
- I am snagging an upgrade F fare at purchase time like 50% of the time 1-3 weeks out.
- AA offered me Platinum for flying 12K EQMs which was east to get so I will get free seat assignments on BA for 2019.
- No change/cancel fees is great.

I think for each person the above list varies. In general there is no one really earning your loyalty anymore so people should match and switch to the carrier that offers the best value for the loyalty for that flying pattern. I don't get what's going on at AS because I think they should want people like me, but I guess everyone in this thread is thinking the same thing and we all have different flying patterns.
SFOPeter is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2018, 6:46 pm
  #55  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Denver, CO USA
Programs: UA GS 3Million, Marriott/SPG LIFETIME Platinum - current Titanium, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 633
Originally Posted by formerstarQB16
Alaska loves to blame ATC, but I know for certain (via ATC'ers at Seattle Center) that much of their excuse in bunk. They are pushing their gate usage too high, which has a domino effect once ATC has a minor hiccup. I understand why they're doing it, but they are severely underestimating the effect it is having on both customer and employee morale. Every single flight I've had with them for the past several months results in one or two frequent flyer's openly criticizing the airline while on the plane. The flight attendants, likely because of frequent delays, have developed more of a surly demeanor. Dating back to the pilot shortage, my experience flying Alaska over the past 18 months has been abysmal..
Shocked, I'm shocked, I say, at the allegations that Alaska would blame anyone else for their misery! Clearly you've not spent enough time on the SEA-PDX shuttle where the FAs and the pilots connive to claim it's too bumpy to serve even tepid water and coffee at the same temperature. I've been on bouncier, shorter flights on Delta and UAX where they've served a full service.

I left two years ago and haven't looked back. I was worth upwards of $30K in revenue and AS didn't bat an eyelash - never bothered to even send a survey...
BlueHenFlyer is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2018, 6:49 pm
  #56  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Denver, CO USA
Programs: UA GS 3Million, Marriott/SPG LIFETIME Platinum - current Titanium, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 633
SFOPeter - you would be surprised at how much finally signing the FA contract has improved the mood at UA. It is more than noticeable. As a lifetime 1K, the PQM/PQD stuff has never worried me, so I can't opine. I can only say I am much happier flying UA around the US. Still use AS when there's a convenient NS - even to JFK and EWR.
BlueHenFlyer is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2018, 6:58 pm
  #57  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
Ok I have a total noob question. (Clearly I never fly international revenue tickets)

Do you get elite bonus miles on international partners?
VegasGambler is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2018, 7:27 pm
  #58  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SFO, SJC
Programs: UA MM /Gold ; AS MVP Gold; SWA A LIst and CP; HH Gold; Bonvoy Titanium; IHG Plat Elite
Posts: 588
Grass is greener... AS/WN now over UA

... I said EXACTLY the same thing when I did a status match from UA Gold (million mile lifer) to AS MVPG. For my work trips I fly AS just enough to maintain MVPG and use WN with companion pass when Mr Lainys travels with.

Credit card spend maintains WN CP and my AS upgrade % out of SJC is fantastic compared to UA Gold departures out of SFO.... think 2nd or 3rd page down the UA upgrade list somewhere....LOL. Personally I've been a happy AS MVPG flyer since the status match! Time will tell... for now i'll stick to AS/WN over UA

UA got several work round trips this year only because of convenience and multiple nonstop flight options over AS/WN in case customer meetings finished earlier or later (SFO-BOS-SFO).
lainys is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2018, 7:37 pm
  #59  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SEA
Programs: Hilton/Marriott Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 2,036
Originally Posted by VegasGambler
Ok I have a total noob question. (Clearly I never fly international revenue tickets)

Do you get elite bonus miles on international partners?
Yes.
jinglish is offline  
Old Nov 2, 2018, 1:15 am
  #60  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: AS G100K, DL PM, IHG Gold, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 843
Originally Posted by formerstarQB16
Yeah... considering the AUS-SEA flight I was on a week ago had 57 elites, I think you're underestimating the percentage of revenue elites possess. Elites average spend per ticket is also substantially more.

I also think you underestimate how easy it is to make a dumb decision in a large organization. It happens all the time. Likely, someone decided Alaska was wasting money by providing benefits Delta, American, and United do not. Whoever pitched/decided this obviously misunderstands why frequent flyers choose to fly what is really a glorified regional airline. Outside of West Coast routes, it is FARRR easier to fly Delta and by watering down their frequent flyer program, they are conceding really the only advantage they've got over Delta.

Delta has been whooping American and United for years. Now they're whooping Alaska, primarily because Alaska decided to get drunk on Keystone Ice before the fight.
you points were right on and exactly what I was trying to "hint". I guess my paragraph should have sounded more sarcastic. Thanks!
BW Flyer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.