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Moving/Sharing My Business/Loyalty to/with Other Airlines

Moving/Sharing My Business/Loyalty to/with Other Airlines

Old Oct 31, 2018, 10:53 am
  #31  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SEA, NW/DL 1.6Million Miler
Programs: DL 1MM Annual Silver,AS 100K 22-24, AS 75K 15-21
Posts: 4,262
Originally Posted by IStream
My first big step was to fly to Japan non-stop on an ANA 787 rather than AS partner JAL, which was almost twice the price for a 1-stop with a miserly 30% RDM earning rate on AS.
Sorry AS.......I suspect it's only a matter of time until more folks catch on.
Sorry to see you go, but all understandable. Just to add a note, Alaska's partner JAL begins Seattle Tokyo service beginning 3/31/2019. Not quite sure whether partnership played a role in this new flight but surely helps.

Jiburi
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 11:51 am
  #32  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: Alaska Airlines
Posts: 658
Originally Posted by Calculon


The waiver is only given to the person with status on revenue tickets. On awards, officially the waiver is granted based on the mileage account used for the redemption. From a gold or higher mileage account, all travelers get the fees waived.
This is a good tip - I book awards tickets for friends when we're speculating on trips which may be cancelled, such as Rose Bowl or PAC12 championship airfare.

You don't even have to be on the same PNR, you can book their ticket completely separate. As long as you're Gold or above and you do the booking on your points with them as the traveler.
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 12:25 pm
  #33  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 917
Originally Posted by nearlysober
This is a good tip - I book awards tickets for friends when we're speculating on trips which may be cancelled, such as Rose Bowl or PAC12 championship airfare.

You don't even have to be on the same PNR, you can book their ticket completely separate. As long as you're Gold or above and you do the booking on your points with them as the traveler.
It's really useful sometimes. I was flying with a non-MVPG friend, and we needed a short hop from SEA-PSC after an AA award. The ticket was reasonable on both miles or money, but we weren't sure how the incoming flight would work out, and I needed a little bump to renew status anyway. So I paid money (getting the waiver), and booked his flight with 5k miles (getting the waiver). Ended up being the right call, because the AA award got a big schedule change that forced an overnight connection.

They could take away just about any other benefit, and I'd still want to get MVPG+ just for the fee savings. I don't really care about boarding early, I can still have a free bag with the credit card, and even on a transcon I really don't care that much about a first class seat. It's nice to have, and even better to get a big recliner or a lie flat, but in the end I'm going to do the exact same thing regardless of the seat: work, eat, read, watch videos, or sleep. Never really had a problem doing any of those things, even in a coach middle seat. So for now, most of my domestic business is safe with Alaska.
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 12:45 pm
  #34  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: BART Platinum, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 1,157
Originally Posted by jiburi
Sorry to see you go, but all understandable. Just to add a note, Alaska's partner JAL begins Seattle Tokyo service beginning 3/31/2019. Not quite sure whether partnership played a role in this new flight but surely helps.
Jiburi
The JL earnings chart is still pretty terrible though. For example, a deep discount economy ticket on JL earns 30% EQM, while a deep discount economy ticket on NH earns 100% PQM (when crediting to UA). Or, a discount business ticket on JL earns 70% EQM (!), while a discount business ticket on NH earns 200% PQM (on UA).
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 2:30 pm
  #35  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K, AA Plat, WN A-list, AS MVP 75K, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 379
Originally Posted by milypan
The JL earnings chart is still pretty terrible though. For example, a deep discount economy ticket on JL earns 30% EQM, while a deep discount economy ticket on NH earns 100% PQM (when crediting to UA). Or, a discount business ticket on JL earns 70% EQM (!), while a discount business ticket on NH earns 200% PQM (on UA).
It's terrible, but the what are the UA miles worth in comparison? My last usage was DUB-SFO next summer in J cost me 55K AS miles each one way (partner) vs. 135K UA miles (own metal or partner.) 55K was 13 o/w econ trips SFO-ORD on AS. Easily double that many trips on UA for 55k RDM, about 5x to make 135k.

I appreciate the discussion here, as an SFO/SJC flyer with high status on UA/AS I'm still undecided about what to do in 2019. If you had asked me that in August I'd have laughed at the thought of flying UA heavily again next year. Laughed! AS had won the battle, right up until they didn't.
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 2:48 pm
  #36  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: British Columbia
Programs: AS MVPG100K, Marriott Marriott Titanium Elite, Hilton Gold
Posts: 7,263
Originally Posted by milypan
The JL earnings chart is still pretty terrible though. For example, a deep discount economy ticket on JL earns 30% EQM, while a deep discount economy ticket on NH earns 100% PQM (when crediting to UA). Or, a discount business ticket on JL earns 70% EQM (!), while a discount business ticket on NH earns 200% PQM (on UA).
How does the RDM and "miles" required for a redemption compare? Can you please price out a JL F award SFO-DEL with international connecting flights from Canada, with a stopover in TYO for comparison? Thank you.

If status is more important than awards, your point is valid. The 200% PQM is really useless if you don't have a PQD waiver.

I did a RTW and around the Pacific Mileage Run to requalify for MVPG75K for about $4K with repositioning flights, 27 flights in total. I earned enough RDM for 2 JL F (booked) and a CX J to CPT.

Let's compare Apples with Apples.

James
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 3:02 pm
  #37  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SEA
Programs: Hilton/Marriott Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 2,036
UA's premium cabin redemption values aren't as good as AS's, and of course you're not earning nearly as many miles on cheap economy tickets. But there's a decent bit of availability across *A, and the values aren't that much worse. A one-way saver award to Europe in J is 57.5k on UA or 70k on partners; those 135k awards are at the anytime level. And while those are certainly a poor value by comparison, they're at least an option if you have enough miles, while AS is solely at the mercy of partner saver inventory.
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 3:45 pm
  #38  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K, AA Plat, WN A-list, AS MVP 75K, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 379
Originally Posted by jinglish
UA's premium cabin redemption values aren't as good as AS's, and of course you're not earning nearly as many miles on cheap economy tickets. But there's a decent bit of availability across *A, and the values aren't that much worse. A one-way saver award to Europe in J is 57.5k on UA or 70k on partners; those 135k awards are at the anytime level. And while those are certainly a poor value by comparison, they're at least an option if you have enough miles, while AS is solely at the mercy of partner saver inventory.
All very true, so many factors to consider. Once in a while I find a UA J saver that doesn't involve ludicrous routings or layovers. But less often than I'd like
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 3:46 pm
  #39  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: British Columbia
Programs: AS MVPG100K, Marriott Marriott Titanium Elite, Hilton Gold
Posts: 7,263
Originally Posted by jinglish
UA's premium cabin redemption values aren't as good as AS's, and of course you're not earning nearly as many miles on cheap economy tickets. But there's a decent bit of availability across *A, and the values aren't that much worse. A one-way saver award to Europe in J is 57.5k on UA or 70k on partners; those 135k awards are at the anytime level. And while those are certainly a poor value by comparison, they're at least an option if you have enough miles, while AS is solely at the mercy of partner saver inventory.
I agree there are options. Even with a PQD waiver, I don't see value in UA for me. My primary focus is on awards; gaining Elite Status is a byproduct of that. How many UA redeemable miles would an NH J fare earn on a typical TPAC route? Is it fare based? Distance based? Tied to Status? Curious, I don't know.

James
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 4:17 pm
  #40  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SEA
Programs: Hilton/Marriott Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 2,036
Originally Posted by Flying for Fun
I agree there are options. Even with a PQD waiver, I don't see value in UA for me. My primary focus is on awards; gaining Elite Status is a byproduct of that. How many UA redeemable miles would an NH J fare earn on a typical TPAC route? Is it fare based? Distance based? Tied to Status? Curious, I don't know.

James
It's distance/fare-based as long as you're not buying it as part of a UA ticket, according to the second table on this page. Side-by-side with AS's JAL earning table, the earnings start even lower for NH-to-UA than they do for JL-to-AS, at 25% compared to 30% (the 0% fares are all award buckets according to this thread), but the top economy fares earn a bit better, with full Y at 150% vs. 100%. J earnings are similarly a mixed bag: most JL J will earn you 225% RDM before elite bonuses at AS, with the lowest pulling in 170%, but NH will get you anywhere from 150% to 300% on UA.

AS definitely has better elite bonuses, though: 50/100/125 versus UA's 25/50/75/100.

Really, if you're looking for a US FFP with horrible premium cabin redemption values versus AS, DL is king. Partner J to Europe can be had for 75k, but I think the lowest price on DL metal is up to 83k now.
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 4:20 pm
  #41  
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,337
Originally Posted by Flying for Fun
My primary focus is on awards; gaining Elite Status is a byproduct of that.
+1

The elite status is a nice to have but since my domestic travel is mostly voluntary (and a lot of it could in theory just get spread to WN/DL/AA/UA/NK) it boils down to a dollars and cents decision for me. How much do I value the Big Front Seat and some kale and polenta for a two hour flight?

And since AS has miles sales more often than not, as well as AV for my *A needs, it's not like I'm excluded from acquiring and redeeming in those programs. There it also becomes dollars and cents: "Oh, my NH/BR J one way flight to BKK is a ~$1100 cash ticket that doesn't accrue any mileage or status".

! find that having to buy the 100k+ to really take advantage of AA's mileage sales makes them a "meh" proposition for me. I don't like large balances in programs given how frequently no-notice/limited notice devaluations happen. It's easier to spend efficiently if you're not buying six figures of them at a time.
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 5:14 pm
  #42  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SEA, NW/DL 1.6Million Miler
Programs: DL 1MM Annual Silver,AS 100K 22-24, AS 75K 15-21
Posts: 4,262
Originally Posted by milypan
The JL earnings chart is still pretty terrible though. For example, a deep discount economy ticket on JL earns 30% EQM, while a deep discount economy ticket on NH earns 100% PQM (when crediting to UA).
and terrible JL earning is likely the result of competition. It's competitor DL is dollar based with 5 miles earn for every dollar (basic member). It would net 2000 miles for a $400 one-way ticket (when bought with required roundtrip ticket).That's 40% of 5000 miles. 30%, is certainly less than 40% but it's not that much different. NH is likely the exception as UA is dollar based with similar earn structure as DL.

Jiburi
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 5:32 pm
  #43  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hawaii
Programs: AS 100K, HA Gold, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 87
Originally Posted by formerstarQB16
The final straw for me was the sudden lack of "U" availability. Without the GGU's and automatic Gold upgrade fares, MVPG provides very little value to me. Especially considering Alaska is typically non-competitive on first class fares compared to Delta. The lack of availability appears to be a choice made by Alaska management. That choice has resulted in them losing my business. I'll take Delta and their lower fares, better first class, far superior lounges, far superior route map, and ability to avoid Sea-Tac.

Very frustrating for this once proud Alaska loyalist.
I'm out too!!!
Have been loyal to Alaska for 20 years, after I fly my already booked tickets in 2019 and use up my wallet, will go to Delta. Loyalty is a two way street, Alaska Bean Counters just cost them a lot of passengers.

Last edited by dayone; Oct 31, 2018 at 5:59 pm Reason: Edit quote formatting.
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 6:17 pm
  #44  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Preferably waiting for takeoff
Programs: AA EXP, MVPG, DL Silver, United Silver, Accor Platinum, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 458
Originally Posted by formerstarQB16
The final straw for me was the sudden lack of "U" availability. Without the GGU's and automatic Gold upgrade fares, MVPG provides very little value to me. Especially considering Alaska is typically non-competitive on first class fares compared to Delta. The lack of availability appears to be a choice made by Alaska management. That choice has resulted in them losing my business. I'll take Delta and their lower fares, better first class, far superior lounges, far superior route map, and ability to avoid Sea-Tac.

Very frustrating for this once proud Alaska loyalist.
This one also has me frustrated. It's a big devaluation in the program any way you slice it. This change is completely a result of a decision by Alaska management, which illustrates one or both of two things. 1) Alaska believes we won't notice or care about the change. 2) Alaska doesn't have an issue changing the value of a listed benefit during the year (with no acknowledgment of doing so). Either way, it is pretty crappy of Alaska to do.
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Old Nov 1, 2018, 1:40 am
  #45  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: AS G100K, DL PM, IHG Gold, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 843
May be the bean counters in AS management have figured out that they can make more money selling cheapo basic economy fares to the masses who fly 2-3 times year, than trying to retain the loyalty of the much smaller crowd of elite flyers who easily spend $10K to $30K a year per person. Hence they thought why even showering that smaller crowd of elite flyers with benefits like U upgrades, They see the math, not me.

i have mentioned in other threads that I have retained G75K for 2019, but I have already shifted a lot of my flying to DL and made GM this year. Earning sky pesos and their upgrade process sucks, but they have a much better network including international routes, FA who also smiles, great seat back IFE system, and a much better PE cabin. With their expansion in SEA, that really gives us SEA-based flyers an alternative to consider, With the constant devaluation of the MP, I am pretty sure it will come down to the sky peso level within a year or two. When that happens, why do we even bother to maintain status at AS?
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