Entertainment Tablets Only on Hawaii, NYC & DC Area, FL and BOS Routes (11/1/2018)
#76
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SFO, mostly
Posts: 2,203
Which, again, AS wouldn't be ripping out all the IFE on pmVX planes if they thought seatback IFE for ANY cabin on either pmVX or pmAS planes was a thing they needed. Yeah, it'a a great option. But they very, VERY obviously don't think this is something they need, because otherwise they wouldn't be standardizing on a no-seatback IFE model for the entire fleet.
Last edited by sltlyamusd; Oct 24, 2018 at 7:55 am
#77
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Over the Bay Bridge, CA
Programs: Jumbo mas
Posts: 38,591
But back specifically to the IFE, it isn't like a menu isn't distributed anymore. You still get your food, and you can still (generally) pre-order it, so you'll know what you're getting. This is like getting your food, but you need to bring your own plates and utensils if you want to eat.
You know what email I received this morning? Yes, just within the past few hours. You've made it to Platinum Medallion® status, now it's time to enjoy it. Here are some of the Platinum benefits you'll experience
I never thought I'd ever join the DL program. Instead, I matched a year ago, had short term Platinum, was Gold for most of this year, and now Platinum once again until early 2020. No, this is obviously not because the elimination of mid-con IFE players. But it doesn't help re: future travel on the "tipping the scales" when all things are otherwise equal, at least for me.
Last edited by Eastbay1K; Oct 24, 2018 at 9:43 am Reason: spellums
#78
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,591
It's even more than just the weight - consumer electronics improve so quickly that even the newest seatback IFE will never be able to keep up with what passengers are already carrying as far as image quality. Plus there's maintenance on top of that. The Digi-eplayers make more sense because the upgrade path is much simpler than with seatback IFE, but given the number of screens I'm usually carrying, it seems silly to spend mass on screens in the seats. Supply power and USB charging port to every seat and let people use their own devices. It would be nice if they had seats that had the fancy spring clamps so you can clamp your tablet or phone into the seat in front of you, though, just to not have to hold it or have the table deployed all the time.
#79
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SEA/ORD/ADB
Programs: TK ELPL (*G), AS 100K (OWE), BA Gold (OWE), Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat
Posts: 7,763
It's even more than just the weight - consumer electronics improve so quickly that even the newest seatback IFE will never be able to keep up with what passengers are already carrying as far as image quality. Plus there's maintenance on top of that. The Digi-eplayers make more sense because the upgrade path is much simpler than with seatback IFE, but given the number of screens I'm usually carrying, it seems silly to spend mass on screens in the seats. Supply power and USB charging port to every seat and let people use their own devices. It would be nice if they had seats that had the fancy spring clamps so you can clamp your tablet or phone into the seat in front of you, though, just to not have to hold it or have the table deployed all the time.
Therefore, I don't think that the assumption that everybody carries a better screen than AS can provide is realistic. That said, perhaps I should thank AS for reminding me that I have a long reading list that I should work on..
#80
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SEA, NW/DL 1.6Million Miler
Programs: DL 1MM Annual Silver,AS 100K 22-24, AS 75K 15-21
Posts: 4,277
For me, spending $9000 on one airlines for the Platinum privilege of being on the upgrade list, often without success, was hardly worth it. Id rather spend my $9000 elsewhere. On top of that, as Platinum, the earn rate of 9 skymiles per dollar means you need to spend minimum of $2777 for a roundtrip domestic ticket (if at 25000 miles), but quite often more as Delta now have unpublished pricing. I'm not sinking my money into a program who is dishonest to its members.
Management keeps talking about needing to cut costs because fuel prices are up and revenue is down, yet they seem to be doing absolutely nothing to attract premium traffic.
Jiburi
Last edited by jiburi; Oct 24, 2018 at 10:50 am
#81
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Over the Bay Bridge, CA
Programs: Jumbo mas
Posts: 38,591
Enjoy it.
For me, spending $9000 on one airlines for the Platinum privilege of being on the upgrade list, often without success, was hardly worth it. Id rather spend my $9000 elsewhere. On top of that, as Platinum, the earn rate of 9 skymiles per dollar means you need to spend minimum of $2777 for a roundtrip domestic ticket (if at 25000 miles), but quite often more as Delta now have unpublished pricing. I'm not sinking my money into a program who is dishonest to its members.
I do agree with this statement. Alaska seem to be doing very little to find a niche of differentiating itself from other carriers. All of what they had seem to be slowing disappearing....and soon looking more and more like WN.
Jiburi
For me, spending $9000 on one airlines for the Platinum privilege of being on the upgrade list, often without success, was hardly worth it. Id rather spend my $9000 elsewhere. On top of that, as Platinum, the earn rate of 9 skymiles per dollar means you need to spend minimum of $2777 for a roundtrip domestic ticket (if at 25000 miles), but quite often more as Delta now have unpublished pricing. I'm not sinking my money into a program who is dishonest to its members.
I do agree with this statement. Alaska seem to be doing very little to find a niche of differentiating itself from other carriers. All of what they had seem to be slowing disappearing....and soon looking more and more like WN.
Jiburi
As someone who has played the mileage game for 32 years, who is almost as old and bitter as BOB W, creature comforts in the moment play a lot more of a role in my choice of travel than illusory dreams of grand vacations with my miles and points at some future point. Not that I haven't been the beneficiary of some very nice travel over the years via my various mileage and point banks. But the "in the moment" experience, does not include having my head crunched over holding my phone while trying to eat my gormay kale and polenta.
#82
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,376
It's likely closer to being closer to NK, if you look at AS F as a version of the Spirit "Big Front Seat" that comes with food and beverage, and a better FFP. NK's reliability is considerably up compared to a few years ago. Their fleet is young.
And the reason why AS and the US3 are chasing NK in making their product look like it?
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea...-7-50-tickets/
Jay Sorensen catalogs how much each airline is recording in ancillary revenue. Spirit is the #1 airline in the world for ancillary revenue as a percentage of total revenue (extra fees comprise nearly half their revenue). Frontier is #3 and Allegiant #5 in the world. It’s not just they fares you want to look at, but total passenger revenue.
In the 2nd quarter of 2018, these low cost carriers had some of the highest operating margins in the industry. American Airlines had a 10% margin, United had a 12% margin, and:
In the 2nd quarter of 2018, these low cost carriers had some of the highest operating margins in the industry. American Airlines had a 10% margin, United had a 12% margin, and:
- Ryanair [European ultra low cost carrier] 18%, #1 in the world
- Allegiant 17%
- Frontier 15%
- Spirit 13%
So far DL's success is coming at the expense of others out of SEA like UA/WN. We will see what happens over the next decade.
As someone who has played the mileage game for 32 years, who is almost as old and bitter as BOB W, creature comforts in the moment play a lot more of a role in my choice of travel than illusory dreams of grand vacations with my miles and points at some future point. Not that I haven't been the beneficiary of some very nice travel over the years via my various mileage and point banks. But the "in the moment" experience, does not include having my head crunched over holding my phone while trying to eat my gormay kale and polenta.
Last edited by eponymous_coward; Oct 24, 2018 at 1:06 pm
#83
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
Hubris? Really? In this instance? It is a matter of expecting a promised delivery of certain creature comforts during our travels. I enjoy my IFE. And this is not compare and contrast of what is more important. Furthermore, I'm not getting better schedules. I just spent a small bucket of dough for a pair of SFO/MEX one way tickets to get me to my MEX/SCL award start, because AS can't get me to MEX anymore.
#84
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,376
At the very least, AS could have retained a small sub fleet of pmVX aircraft in the pre-merger configuration (A321NEOs) to at least have something vaguely competitive to offer on routes like LAX/SFO-JFK. Sure, it would reduce aircraft scheduling flexibility, but looking st passenger review sites, I see lots of complaints already fro people getting stuck on an AS 739 to JFK when they are accustomed to the VX product. They may be overestimating customer loyalty in an extremely competitive market. Management keeps talking about needing to cut costs because fuel prices are up and revenue is down, yet they seem to be doing absolutely nothing to attract premium traffic.
I might note that this is a better hard product than AA's Project Oasis rollout and DL F (pitchwise). We'll see if it gets a death of a thousand cuts. But it doesn't even exist as a product yet for pmVX (0 planes configured for it), and there's still work on the pmAS side too (0 planes in final config).
#85
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Over the Bay Bridge, CA
Programs: Jumbo mas
Posts: 38,591
I think your use of the word "promise" is inappropriate and indicative of the sense of entitlement that permeates FlyerTalk. To continue with the brutal honesty, no airline is targeting customers that value IFE above other factors. It is telling that there are only two airlines (DL and B6 for now) committed to in-seat IFE for domestic flights while 4 (AA, AS, HA, UA) are removing or discontinuing in favor of streaming.
AS "sold" me status, for a year, and enticed me to earn status, for the better part of another year, where much of the route network would have IFE devices. AS sold F tickets, which at the time of the purchase, would have IFE devices. No entitlement here. I am not to proud to fly WN as need be, and I get what I contract for, and if I want guaranteed bin space and a good shot at an aisle seat, I pay more for a supplemental contract.
#86
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: SoCal,
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro
Posts: 771
No tablets is getting kicked? Lol, I guess buying one or using your phone is out of the question? Using your phone works too. Just saying.
#87
#88
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,376
OK, so there's one in that config. Maybe. What AS plans on delivering won't be fleetwide until 2020, at which point AA will be densifying their F seats and ripping out IFE, and UA and WN won't be adding IFE anywhere.
#89
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: Alaska Airlines
Posts: 658
I don't see anyone saying that they "believe IFE is more important"... but that doesn't mean we cannot have this discussion.
You want to talk about better schedules and networks? Start a thread for it.
Last edited by nearlysober; Oct 24, 2018 at 6:04 pm Reason: tags & formatting fun
#90
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
It is not inappropriate in that it is what the airline sold me. It is not any sense of entitlement, other than what I contracted for, of which I'm entitled. When you order something from a menu, such as Duck a l'orange, and the plate comes and instead of your expected plate, there's a dry piece of duck and a packet of ketchup, notwithstanding the menu description ... in a pre-pay no refunds restaurant ... is your expectation inappropriate? Are you suffering a sense of entitlement?
AS "sold" me status, for a year, and enticed me to earn status, for the better part of another year, where much of the route network would have IFE devices. AS sold F tickets, which at the time of the purchase, would have IFE devices. No entitlement here. I am not to proud to fly WN as need be, and I get what I contract for, and if I want guaranteed bin space and a good shot at an aisle seat, I pay more for a supplemental contract.
AS "sold" me status, for a year, and enticed me to earn status, for the better part of another year, where much of the route network would have IFE devices. AS sold F tickets, which at the time of the purchase, would have IFE devices. No entitlement here. I am not to proud to fly WN as need be, and I get what I contract for, and if I want guaranteed bin space and a good shot at an aisle seat, I pay more for a supplemental contract.