AS must be using that "new math"
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: AS, QF, SK
Posts: 127
AS must be using that "new math"
U class availability has fallen off a cliff to where it's barely of any use anymore, but at least the numbers sort of matched up in terms of the point between econ and F. I've long since switched over to another carrier for various reasons, but in those instances where AS is the better choice for a trip, I've noticed lately that even their rate charts are all messed up. Here's a great example - the non-guaranteed U rate....more than F fare. I've also noticed that they're feathering up the aggressiveness of the F arbitrage, as there are a LOT of F seats available in these flights showing only a few left.
Did a dispensary open up across the street from where AS keeps its actuaries?
Random aside: When did they start charging golds/75's for the enhanced seating? I noticed on this rez they wanted to charge $45 a seat for row 6. I don't know if I've been paying that for some length of time and I just never noticed the fee or if it's new - last time I remember reading about it, the fee only applied to non-elites.
Did a dispensary open up across the street from where AS keeps its actuaries?
Random aside: When did they start charging golds/75's for the enhanced seating? I noticed on this rez they wanted to charge $45 a seat for row 6. I don't know if I've been paying that for some length of time and I just never noticed the fee or if it's new - last time I remember reading about it, the fee only applied to non-elites.
#2
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: BART Platinum, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 1,157
Theyre not charging 75Ks for Row 6, just Golds. Technically Row 6 is an upgrade for anyone, but 75Ks qualify for an instant upgrade on any booking class. IIRC Golds do not qualify for instant upgrade on the two or three lowest booking classes, and would need to wait for the upgrade list to process closer to departure.
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: AS, QF, SK
Posts: 127
Theyre not charging 75Ks for Row 6, just Golds. Technically Row 6 is an upgrade for anyone, but 75Ks qualify for an instant upgrade on any booking class. IIRC Golds do not qualify for instant upgrade on the two or three lowest booking classes, and would need to wait for the upgrade list to process closer to departure.
Running the math, even the "first class upgrade" section is more expensive than just paying it out of pocket in seat selection. The fee came out to $45 a person including taxes, but there's a $48 difference between MC and PCU in their chart.
#4
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: ANC
Programs: Alaska 100k
Posts: 1,012
GTR fares are not eligible for immediate upgrade to premium class (row 6-10 on Boeing) for Gold.
Details are here: https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mi...rship-benefits
To explain the F Upgrade fare being more expensive:
Instant upgrade fares are based on the highest published economy fares (YSBMZ). You aren't purchasing First Class - you are purchasing an expensive economy-class ticket and getting a free upgrade to F. It is designed this way to reward customers who have to purchase the most expensive fares (travel policy, booking late, etc).
Alaska will sometimes run first class sales (sold as P fares) which are not necessarily based on the expensive economy fare price (those don't really go on sale). This creates a situation where the upgrade fare is more expensive than the F fare.
The U availability is a separate issue too:
Since the VX acquisition, they seem to be withholding U availability because of the Airbus with 8F seats being in the fleet now. Many times, I've seen an F cabin "sold out" only to have 8 people upgraded at the gate. They are probably trying to avoid an oversold F cabin in case an airbus gets swapped in.
Details are here: https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mi...rship-benefits
To explain the F Upgrade fare being more expensive:
Instant upgrade fares are based on the highest published economy fares (YSBMZ). You aren't purchasing First Class - you are purchasing an expensive economy-class ticket and getting a free upgrade to F. It is designed this way to reward customers who have to purchase the most expensive fares (travel policy, booking late, etc).
Alaska will sometimes run first class sales (sold as P fares) which are not necessarily based on the expensive economy fare price (those don't really go on sale). This creates a situation where the upgrade fare is more expensive than the F fare.
The U availability is a separate issue too:
Since the VX acquisition, they seem to be withholding U availability because of the Airbus with 8F seats being in the fleet now. Many times, I've seen an F cabin "sold out" only to have 8 people upgraded at the gate. They are probably trying to avoid an oversold F cabin in case an airbus gets swapped in.
#5
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: ANC
Programs: Alaska 100k
Posts: 1,012
They must have feathered the fee in - I was but a gold when they started doing premium seating, and there was no fee back then.
Running the math, even the "first class upgrade" section is more expensive than just paying it out of pocket in seat selection. The fee came out to $45 a person including taxes, but there's a $48 difference between MC and PCU in their chart.
Running the math, even the "first class upgrade" section is more expensive than just paying it out of pocket in seat selection. The fee came out to $45 a person including taxes, but there's a $48 difference between MC and PCU in their chart.
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: AS, QF, SK
Posts: 127
GTR fares are not eligible for immediate upgrade to premium class (row 6-10 on Boeing) for Gold.
Details are here: https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mi...rship-benefits
The U availability is a separate issue too:
Since the VX acquisition, they seem to be withholding U availability because of the Airbus with 8F seats being in the fleet now. Many times, I've seen an F cabin "sold out" only to have 8 people upgraded at the gate. They are probably trying to avoid an oversold F cabin in case an airbus gets swapped in.
Details are here: https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mi...rship-benefits
The U availability is a separate issue too:
Since the VX acquisition, they seem to be withholding U availability because of the Airbus with 8F seats being in the fleet now. Many times, I've seen an F cabin "sold out" only to have 8 people upgraded at the gate. They are probably trying to avoid an oversold F cabin in case an airbus gets swapped in.
#7
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Denver
Programs: AS, AA, UA, Hilton, Marriott, Caesars DE
Posts: 2,070
DEN-SFO, that is the route they cut in early June. I have occasionally seen an A320 on the schedule for SEA-DEN, but I doubt it will happen until VX crew get stationed in SEA or while heavy loads for ski season require bigger planes.
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,341
It's not new. Every so often this is regularly remarked on by various FlyerTalk Armchair VPs for Revenue Management, who rediscover this all the time.
More $ for MVP75 F upgrade than for F
Note that in that thread, UA and DL also apparently have dispensaries next to their corporate HQs.
More $ for MVP75 F upgrade than for F
Note that in that thread, UA and DL also apparently have dispensaries next to their corporate HQs.
#9
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend, Moderator, Information Desk, Ambassador, Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FAI
Programs: AS MVP Gold100K, AS 1MM, Maika`i Card, AGR, HH Gold, Hertz PC, Marriott Titanium LTG, CO, 7H, BA, 8E
Posts: 42,942
I think there is merit to the statement AS is withholding F for sale due to the chances of an aircraft swap. I've seen a couple planes go from F0 to F7 the day before departure and the F seat map (not a good indicator) was not full. Now this may have been folks changing plans last minute, but interesting to speculate.
#10
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: Alaska Airlines
Posts: 658
With all the fall/winter fare sales, most of which are probably G T R fares, I've seen a lot of instances of premium upgrade at booking being an increase in the $20-$40 range to a qualifying fare as a Gold.
Depending on the distance of the flight, and how much drinking I plan to do before arriving at the destination, I may or may not pay for the immediate upgrade instead of taking my chances with an R fare at the end of the line during the upgrade window
Depending on the distance of the flight, and how much drinking I plan to do before arriving at the destination, I may or may not pay for the immediate upgrade instead of taking my chances with an R fare at the end of the line during the upgrade window
#12
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Seattle WA
Programs: AS 100K, Marriott LT Platinum
Posts: 1,828
I think there is merit to the statement AS is withholding F for sale due to the chances of an aircraft swap. I've seen a couple planes go from F0 to F7 the day before departure and the F seat map (not a good indicator) was not full. Now this may have been folks changing plans last minute, but interesting to speculate.
To the OP, when the fare page says "x seats left at $yyy" that doesn't mean there are only x seats left in that cabin of service, just x seats at that price (i.e. in that fare class). So it could well be F6P2 with six (or more open on the F seatmap) and say "only 2 seats left at $549" without being in violation of their FAA-mandated substance policies
#13
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,300
As a relative newcomer to AS, I've noticed their inventory/pricing algorithms do not seem very sophisticated, and they are likely leaving money on the table.
#14
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pacific Wonderland
Programs: ʙᴏɴᴠo̱ʏ Au, IHG Au, HH Dia, Nexus, Pilot FlyingJ Preferred
Posts: 5,336
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K
Posts: 21,309