Details/Discussion of Saver (Basic Economy) "X" Fares
 

https://www.thisisinsider.com/alaska...-united-2018-9

No mention of whether the fares will be upgrade eligible. And of course the article claims this is all about targeting the price conscious customer, when really it's just the same price as the old lowest regular economy fares with fewer things included, as a mechanism to extract revenue from customers who pay to avoid it.

Neil

Wonder if this will be the last straw. They are already more expensive and have no network to rely on in IRROPS.

If you can select a seat, earn miles, and bring a carryon bag, then what exactly is different between this product and normal economy? :confused:

Likely two things people really care about, e.g. middle seats in the rear and wholly inflexible, e.g. have to buy a new ticket if you need to make a change.

The former is the same as no seat selection, it simply gives the passenger the illusion of selecting from the worst seats. The latter is a cash cow for the carrier.

Probably no changes allowed, no same day standby, board last, and perhaps no elite upgrades to premium/first.

They didn't say *how many* miles you earn for this. It could be 25% of the normal amount of miles for that flight and it would still qualify as "earning miles". Also you presumably board last which means even if you are allowed a carry on the only one you'd likely be able to reasonably get on board is one that fits under the seat in front of you.

Neil

I don't get why you'd likely end up in the middle if you can select a seat. Are they planning on blocking most seats, so you can only choose mostly middles towards the back? Not sure why that would be any better than not being able to choose seats ahead of time at all. You choose seats ahead of time so you don't end up in the middle.

This will likely hurt elites the most. As a Gold I'll probably be getting very little benefits with basic economy tickets. So the option would be to pay more, or end up being a de facto non-elite. Doubt these will allow changes or upgrades.

Yes.
This is exactly the point to these fares. They aren't lower fares. They are the same price fares with fewer benefits that make people like you and me pay more to avoid them.

Neil

I'm pretty sure my work makes me buy the cheapest fare. Thanks, Alaska.

I see the logic though. Last minute fares cost most (wait, do they?) and often get worst seat.

With this and the post 60 day change cancellation, it becomes hatder to find much to like in Alaska other than their network from Seattle. And Delta is catching up.

Last transcon I bought for work, AS was cheaper than UA (our preferred carrier, where we get discounts) so they booked my requested AS flights.

Generally they seem to be competitive when I'm buying tickets, at least on the routes and times I'm flying.

perhaps seat selection will only be from OLCI inside T-24, and BE fares will be restricted to seats behind the exit rows. so you get to choose versus them choosing for you, but the choices won't be great.

i am confident the mileage earning will be <100%.

regarding employer purchases, my employer's travel portal blocks basic economy fares. there are plenty of times they are offered by Delta, but the lowest fare returned by our portal is the lowest main cabin fare with normal privileges. from what i have heard many employers who use travel portals have instilled this logic in their searches/booking rules.

I have someone else deal with Concur for me, but I think ours blocks BE. At any rate, we make enough changes that they don't buy us BE fares - I had a couple straight years where I don't think I flew a single itinerary as originally booked.

Perhaps the difference (from the competition) is that elites would still see preferred seats?

I am confident thats coming to all fare classes soon other than refundable..

The other carriers' BE programs have been Trojan Horse price hikes. They are not discounts against old economy fares, with less benefits. They are the old economy fares, with the benefits formerly associated with same now priced higher. Presumably AS will be no less disappointing.

Most employers have exempted BE fares from "lowest logical" policies and, if they use compliance software such as Concur, have programmed that accordingly. These fares are a terrible deal for businesses because, at least on the three legacies and we will have to see on AS -- the tickets are inflexible. Thus, if a trip is cancelled or changed, the ticket is worthless. One does not need to toss more than a ticket every year or two to make up whatever the scraps are in BE.

BE works well for carriers. Most passengers simply click on the cheapest fare and do not consider anything else. If AS provides middle seats only, most won't even know that there were available windows and aisles to have been had for a marginally more expensive fare.

It is all a race to the bottom. If one carrier prices $10-15 below the others, its tickets will show up as the cheapest. But, if everyone offers roughly the same BE ticket, it won't much matter.

For personal travel, this may be useful if one simply cannot afford the Y ticket and the small savings to BE makes the trip doable. But, the cheapest ticket is often not the least expensive ticket. People need to make changes and when they do, they get a rude surprise (they should not, but they do).

I expect Alaska will go out of their way to make sure people buying these fares know they are stuck in a middle seat and for just a few bucks more can get a different fare that allows windows and aisles.

These fares aren't about offering cheaper flights for the flying public. They're about charging the same for less and enticing people to pay more to avoid the restrictions on the ticket.

Neil

You would be surprised. All three of the legacies not only separate out BE from Y, PE, J, and F, but also require one to check a box before proceeding, acknowledging the specific limitation of the fares. People click through those things without looking. AS may or may not do the same thing, but it can't likely do more than AA, DL, and UA do now and the fares are wildly successful, to the extent that both DL and UA are expanding their use

If you buy tickets through an OTA it may be less obvious and less called out. I often do initial price comparisons through OTAs, and getting them to not show BE fares can be non-trivial. I habitually use Orbitz, but they're particularly bad about wanting to show nothing but BE, so I'm finally starting to use google flights for the comparison. I'm not sure if they make you acknowledge what a restricted ticket you're getting, because I buy personal tickets through the airline sites and have someone else do my tickets at work, but they aren't nearly as obvious as using the airline websites while you're searching.

A point lost on most casual buyers.

OTA channels can be a good deal less explicit. Sometimes there is just a mystery icon, smaller than the price quote.

It sounds like Orbitz serves you poorly. Continuing to use it is a market choice you make.

If you are like me and get stuck on nothing but Q400's where every seat is terrible, Id gladly save a few bucks to not pre select a seat

What makes you think that? Elites are the demographic most likely/able to pay the "tax" to buy out of Basic and up to the higher fare to get their seat assignment and upgrade benefits

Remember that "wildly successful" for these fares, as seen from the airline's perspective, isn't that people buy them often. It's that people pay more money to avoid them. They haven't been wildly successful everywhere either. United admitted they lost $100m because passengers simply booked elsewhere when they could get more benefits for the same amount of money by flying another airline. American had to relax their BE carry-on rules too because they were so restrictive people simply booked another airline at the same price with fewer restrictions instead of paying American the upcharge to avoid the restrictions.

Neil

The problem is when "a few bucks more" went from $20-$30 to $75 to $200+. That's how I wound up flying AS more (and liking it) in the first place. UA N fares and (especially) AA B fares had significant discounts from their other Y buckets. Any AS economy fare was usually cheaper than non-basic economy on my routes. When that goes away, likely so will I, as AS isn't a preferred vendor.

If the fare is below the change fee, which it is in many cases, then this is already the case on traditional non-refundable fares.


Part of the rationale these tickets are typically excluded is because of the restrictions. By including more than other carriers, AS may not be an exclusion here. This may help or harm them. If more people book them because they're lower, great. If people get creative and find ways to avoid them to get a better seat on someone else that is more restricted in the corp booking tools, this could harm them.


BE works well for carriers. Most passengers simply click on the cheapest fare and do not consider anything else. If AS provides middle seats only, most won't even know that there were available windows and aisles to have been had for a marginally more expensive fare.

It is all a race to the bottom. If one carrier prices $10-15 below the others, its tickets will show up as the cheapest. But, if everyone offers roughly the same BE ticket, it won't much matter.

For personal travel, this may be useful if one simply cannot afford the Y ticket and the small savings to BE makes the trip doable. But, the cheapest ticket is often not the least expensive ticket. People need to make changes and when they do, they get a rude surprise (they should not, but they do).[/QUOTE]

No but they have done it to all of their partners but Qantas. The first will be just this new "basic" but do you really think its stops there? I wish i had your optimism.

I don't really use it for other than finding flights at the right times that I book elsewhere, since it did a decent job of that until the proliferation of BE.

There is a significant slice of the traveling public which simply abandons the residual credit from standard penalty tickets anyway. Either they don't travel enough, they forget or it is just to much of a hassle. Those people are attracted to the lowest fare. It is way overthinking things to believe that there are a lot of people who make a rational choice about these things.

Just look at the one-time wonder rants here on FT from people who bought a BE ticket, were forced to sit apart from somebody for a <2 hour flight and the carrier ruined their life because it would not force someone out of a seat to meet their needs. Or their dog ate a $5 winning lottery ticket and they are too upset to travel and can't understand why the carrier won't refund their BE ticket.

You are not saving anything compared to what you pay today, though. Other than the time to actually select a seat, but you can always skip that.

Also, I am almost always able to get 1B, which I like (my wife grumbles in 1A but understands my desire for leg room).

Half the people don't close the door to the restroom when they're done. That seat stinks- literally

It does not matter whether your ticket tomorrow represents a savings over your ticket today.

All that matters is what a ticket costs tomorrow in BE and then plain old Y. The fact that carriers use BE not to cut fares, but to raise them is the subject of endless rants on FT, but carriers set prices based on what they can get today, not what they could get yesterday.

ITAMatrix also serves one poorly then. Don't know what google flights does as I hate the fact that google destroyed ITAMatrix so don't use it

I wonder whether elites can change the BE tickets without a fee. None of the legacy airlines have that policy anyway, only Southwest (which doesn't have BE) and Jetblue (which also doesn't have BE)