No more Airbus to Hawaii effective 8/25
Aug 27, 2018, 11:17 pm
#16
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Location: Seattle, WA
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My opinion (with 20 years industry background working AA DFW Operations) is that pulling the Airbus from Hawaii is most likely a cost reduction for "fleet commonality".
Ask yourself ... what airlines operate narrow body (IE: A3xx series) Airbus aircraft to/from/within Hawaii ??
To the best of my knowledge, VX nee AS, is the ONLY such scheduled operator within the entire state.
I don't know how they have handled unshceduled maint problems while in Hawaii (with trained mechanics and/or a parts inventory). It's not like they can pick up the phone and call the local Airbus repair shop. However it was done, this had to cost VX serious $$$.
On a smaller scale, I thought the same when (a then AS owned) VX inaugurated service from SFO to KOA last December (I was on the inaugural flight
).
Why operate with an A320, when it will be the one and only A320 to the island each day. Wouldn't a 737 make more sense ?
Switching all Hawaii service to 737 has to be a cost savings for AS. While 737 service in Hawaii isn't too big, you can at least enter into agreement with UA to share the manpower/inventory/costs somewhat. And I'm sure the 737 shares a lot of components with the 757, also helping to ease the pain.
Ask yourself ... what airlines operate narrow body (IE: A3xx series) Airbus aircraft to/from/within Hawaii ??
To the best of my knowledge, VX nee AS, is the ONLY such scheduled operator within the entire state.
I don't know how they have handled unshceduled maint problems while in Hawaii (with trained mechanics and/or a parts inventory). It's not like they can pick up the phone and call the local Airbus repair shop. However it was done, this had to cost VX serious $$$.
On a smaller scale, I thought the same when (a then AS owned) VX inaugurated service from SFO to KOA last December (I was on the inaugural flight
).Why operate with an A320, when it will be the one and only A320 to the island each day. Wouldn't a 737 make more sense ?
Switching all Hawaii service to 737 has to be a cost savings for AS. While 737 service in Hawaii isn't too big, you can at least enter into agreement with UA to share the manpower/inventory/costs somewhat. And I'm sure the 737 shares a lot of components with the 757, also helping to ease the pain.
Aug 28, 2018, 1:48 am
#17
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I'm sure Flying for Fun must be thrilled about this.
James
Aug 28, 2018, 10:12 am
#18
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Aug 28, 2018, 11:33 am
#19
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Aug 28, 2018, 11:35 am
#20
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SFOKOA was operated by an A320 only for a few months after it started. I think in late April or early may it moved to the 737. I was talking to an A320 crew in early April when I was aboard the OGG-SFO red eye and they were telling me many pmVX crew were aggressively bidding for the KOA route because it would only be operated by the A320 for a brief time and they won't be certified on the 737 for quite some time.
Aug 28, 2018, 12:55 pm
#21
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I know AS still flies there, as I said, I was on the route 3 weeks ago. Is removing AS Airbus equipment supposed to change that? If you are still clenching to VX then I would agree VX doesn't fly the route anymore because it is a defunct airline. GONE.
I am not sure of your point but likely disinterested if you insist on referencing me negatively with respect to Alaska's Airbus Fleet.
Thank you,
James
Last edited by dayone; Aug 28, 2018 at 1:24 pm Reason: Redact personal attacks.
Aug 28, 2018, 4:09 pm
#23
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Whether AS flies their Airbus or Boeing aircraft to Hawaii should be their decision in best utilizing their resources for capability, cost & efficiency. That is not my expertise so I am happy with AS deploying resources appropriately.
I know AS still flies there, as I said, I was on the route 3 weeks ago. Is removing AS Airbus equipment supposed to change that? If you are still clenching to VX then I would agree VX doesn't fly the route anymore because it is a defunct airline. GONE.
I am not sure of your point but likely disinterested if you insist on referencing me negatively with respect to Alaska's Airbus Fleet.
Thank you,
James
I know AS still flies there, as I said, I was on the route 3 weeks ago. Is removing AS Airbus equipment supposed to change that? If you are still clenching to VX then I would agree VX doesn't fly the route anymore because it is a defunct airline. GONE.
I am not sure of your point but likely disinterested if you insist on referencing me negatively with respect to Alaska's Airbus Fleet.
Thank you,
James
My remark has nothing to do with whether VX still flies the route or not. Obviously VX stopped flying the route in Jan when the single operating certificate was obtained.
Last edited by dayone; Aug 28, 2018 at 4:48 pm Reason: Discussing moderation.
Aug 28, 2018, 9:41 pm
#25
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Seattle
Posts: 85
Sorry. I probably should have chosen my words a little more carefully. I meant that once the 321s started coming in, they were scheduled on some of the HNL routes. Not when VX initially started flying to Hawaii
I probably should have chosen my words a little better. I didn't mean when VX first started flying to Hawaii. I meant once the 321s started appearing on property, they were scheduled on some of the HNL routes.
I'm not sure about the brand new engine, but the LEAP 1As are the ones that are having to be replaced every 4-500 cycles. This is coming straight from AS's VP of System Ops
I've loved your input so far on this forum, but on this topic I think you have a few facts mixed.
As jinglish has already stated, VX was flying the A320 to Hawaii long before they would have the A321 in the fleet.
When Hawaii first became a glimmer in VX's eye, it was soon clear that a "stock" A320 could not reliably, year round, meet FAA fuel requirements. "Fuel to destination" wasn't the issue, it was that fuel plus the more stringent FAA requirements for "reserve fuel" on over water flights that couldn't be met. The "sharklet" conversion saved the day, but like the A320 westbound transcon flights in the winter, would still have some days where the aircraft could not be legally dispatched on the route. I read somewhere that they hoped by the time their A321's arrived, their Hawaii markets would've grown enough to support the larger plane because that plane would not have the dispatch issues with reserve fuel. So while the A321 was always a part of VX's initial talks of going to Hawaii, it is FAR from being the "initially scheduled" aircraft.
I'd double check your data on the # of cycles before engine swap. A multi-million $$$ engine that requires overhaul every 400-500 cycles is an engine that's going to give its manufacturer many lawsuits.
I thought (but don't know for a fact) that the brand engine on AS' A321NEOS were not affected by all the recent issues (???)
The A320 (AS' are all CEO) is a completely different engine, so to answer the post you were replying to : No ... AS pulling Airbus aircraft from the Hawaii markets has nothing to do with issues on (other airlines ???) A321NEO engines.
As jinglish has already stated, VX was flying the A320 to Hawaii long before they would have the A321 in the fleet.
When Hawaii first became a glimmer in VX's eye, it was soon clear that a "stock" A320 could not reliably, year round, meet FAA fuel requirements. "Fuel to destination" wasn't the issue, it was that fuel plus the more stringent FAA requirements for "reserve fuel" on over water flights that couldn't be met. The "sharklet" conversion saved the day, but like the A320 westbound transcon flights in the winter, would still have some days where the aircraft could not be legally dispatched on the route. I read somewhere that they hoped by the time their A321's arrived, their Hawaii markets would've grown enough to support the larger plane because that plane would not have the dispatch issues with reserve fuel. So while the A321 was always a part of VX's initial talks of going to Hawaii, it is FAR from being the "initially scheduled" aircraft.
I'd double check your data on the # of cycles before engine swap. A multi-million $$$ engine that requires overhaul every 400-500 cycles is an engine that's going to give its manufacturer many lawsuits.
I thought (but don't know for a fact) that the brand engine on AS' A321NEOS were not affected by all the recent issues (???)
The A320 (AS' are all CEO) is a completely different engine, so to answer the post you were replying to : No ... AS pulling Airbus aircraft from the Hawaii markets has nothing to do with issues on (other airlines ???) A321NEO engines.
I'm not sure about the brand new engine, but the LEAP 1As are the ones that are having to be replaced every 4-500 cycles. This is coming straight from AS's VP of System Ops
Aug 28, 2018, 10:05 pm
#26
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I'm actually surprised the Airbus lasted this long to Hawaii. Once Alaska finalized everything, I would have thought the Airbus would be relegated to mainland routes. I wouldn't be surprised to see the A321s go back at some point, once they get the engine issues sorted out.
It's a world-wide issue with the CFMs that affects both Boeing and Airbus models.
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...duction-lines/
The AA A321s only fly LAX-Hawaii. They don't have the legs to (economically, at least) fly PHX-Hawaii. Those flights are operated by a handful of 757s. Supposedly AA will send some A321Ns on PHX-Hawaii when they arrive, but nothing has been set in stone.
Heck, we rarely get the PMAA A321s here in PHX. We get a ton of those PMUS A321s, some of which are so underpowered they can barely crack 31,000 on a PHX-CLT flight.
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...duction-lines/
Heck, we rarely get the PMAA A321s here in PHX. We get a ton of those PMUS A321s, some of which are so underpowered they can barely crack 31,000 on a PHX-CLT flight.
Aug 28, 2018, 10:25 pm
#27
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Paradise
Posts: 1,617
Goodness, people are now calling out others over the type of aircraft equipment being deployed. As if these decisions are made on a whim, rather than thought out and calculated as to what offers the best profits to AS. Let's also not forget AS announced many moons ago, that the airbuses would be allocated North-South, while the 737's would be moved West-East. Hawaii to California is a West-East route, so why is this a surprise to the OP?
Which one you think is better. Trying to slot a select few sharkletted planes in the system to line up for the Hawaii runs and keep spares or use 737's, of which there are at least 10x the 800/9ER's that can be easily swapped.
Which one you think is better. Trying to slot a select few sharkletted planes in the system to line up for the Hawaii runs and keep spares or use 737's, of which there are at least 10x the 800/9ER's that can be easily swapped.
Aug 28, 2018, 11:06 pm
#28
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RIP Hawaii-bound Airbii 
Those flights were always quite enjoyable on the VX A320s & A321s, even before the ViaSat was fully operational.
Glad I got to experience the very first VX Hawaii flight and now one of the final flights last week HNL to SFO in F.
On that inaugural SFO-HNL flight back in November 2015, I somehow sat in 4C directly behind then CEO David Cush in 3C (with Richard Branson sitting up in 1F). Sir Richard used the F cabin as his office to take interviews with all of the media who were on board. He occasionally danced a conga line down the aisle with hula dancers and uke player.
Got nostalgic revisiting these photos...
Pre-departure Mai Tai's and hula show at the SFO gate @ 8AM
My GF and I, pretty amazing experience
On stage there you had then VX CEO David Cush, Sir Richard, the mayor of Honolulu, and I can't remember who else.
Flying the VX experience to/from Hawaii was an amazing run while it lasted!
Those flights were always quite enjoyable on the VX A320s & A321s, even before the ViaSat was fully operational.Glad I got to experience the very first VX Hawaii flight and now one of the final flights last week HNL to SFO in F.
On that inaugural SFO-HNL flight back in November 2015, I somehow sat in 4C directly behind then CEO David Cush in 3C (with Richard Branson sitting up in 1F). Sir Richard used the F cabin as his office to take interviews with all of the media who were on board. He occasionally danced a conga line down the aisle with hula dancers and uke player.
Got nostalgic revisiting these photos...
Pre-departure Mai Tai's and hula show at the SFO gate @ 8AM
My GF and I, pretty amazing experience
On stage there you had then VX CEO David Cush, Sir Richard, the mayor of Honolulu, and I can't remember who else.
Flying the VX experience to/from Hawaii was an amazing run while it lasted!
Aug 29, 2018, 12:24 am
#29
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Slightly disturbed by the photos. Reminds me of the inflight VX DO:
Final Boarding Call: Virgin America DO 24 APR SFO-LAX
Thanks for sharing ^
Final Boarding Call: Virgin America DO 24 APR SFO-LAX
Thanks for sharing ^
Aug 29, 2018, 12:44 am
#30
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Not to take away from anybody's fun, but the plural of Airbus is either Airbus or Airbuses, not Airbii or Airbi. The 'i' ending for plurals is purely for words with a Latin root. Bus, as a noun, does not have a Latin root.