No more Airbus to Hawaii effective 8/25
Aug 25, 2018, 10:43 pm
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No more Airbus to Hawaii effective 8/25
The Airbus has been removed from all Hawaii routes effective today 8/25.
Aug 26, 2018, 12:44 am
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Other than the excellently timed SFO-OGG flight, what Hawaii flights were flown with the Airbus?
Makes sense to consolidate everything to Boeing equipment since the Airbii are going to (finally) get converted. Maybe they can fix the huge backlog of MEL issues too.
Makes sense to consolidate everything to Boeing equipment since the Airbii are going to (finally) get converted. Maybe they can fix the huge backlog of MEL issues too.
Aug 26, 2018, 12:47 am
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2x daily SFO-OGG (and vv)
1x daily LAX-HNL (and vv)
1-2x daily LAX-OGG (and vv)
Aug 26, 2018, 3:01 pm
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VX had already been serving these routes with their newer A320ceos (the ones with the sharklets), and AFAIK these routes never saw the A321neos. The neo's engine problems are also mostly with the P&W GTFs, not the CFM LEAPs on the VX/AS birds.
Aug 26, 2018, 3:49 pm
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I see that currently SEA-JFK schedule has an am departure operated by an Airbus (rarely A321neo) but by winter, all SEA-JFK are 737's. That is consistent with statements that the Airbus are less fuel efficient, slightly smaller, and to be used for flights within the west coast. Of course, the exception could be the biggest plane, the A321neo, could be for certain transcon flight in/from SFO or LAX.
Aug 26, 2018, 10:56 pm
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Yes and no. I believe the HNL routes were initially scheduled with the 321neo, but because of the engine issues with the LEAP engines, they are not flying them to the islands until the issues are taken care of. As of July, LEAP engines were having to be swapped out every 400-500 cycles, as opposed to 12,000 cycles when compared to the CFM engines (320ceo and 737). Because of this, those routes were switched to the 320s, which have a large disadvantage over the 737 when operating to the islands (321 > 737 > 320).
Aug 27, 2018, 1:03 am
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Aug 27, 2018, 6:33 pm
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I'm sure Flying for Fun must be thrilled about this.
VX entered with the A320 (Sharklet/ETOPS), N281VA-N286VA. Then, as the A321neos came in, they were also ETOPS-certified, and would quite often sub out for the A320. I don't believe they were regularly scheduled on the Hawaii routes, but they made pretty frequent appearances.
VX entered with the A320 (Sharklet/ETOPS), N281VA-N286VA. Then, as the A321neos came in, they were also ETOPS-certified, and would quite often sub out for the A320. I don't believe they were regularly scheduled on the Hawaii routes, but they made pretty frequent appearances.
Aug 27, 2018, 9:08 pm
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Aug 27, 2018, 11:05 pm
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My opinion (with 20 years industry background working AA DFW Operations) is that pulling the Airbus from Hawaii is most likely a cost reduction for "fleet commonality".
Ask yourself ... what airlines operate narrow body (IE: A3xx series) Airbus aircraft to/from/within Hawaii ??
To the best of my knowledge, VX nee AS, is the ONLY such scheduled operator within the entire state.
I don't know how they have handled unshceduled maint problems while in Hawaii (with trained mechanics and/or a parts inventory). It's not like they can pick up the phone and call the local Airbus repair shop. However it was done, this had to cost VX serious $$$.
On a smaller scale, I thought the same when (a then AS owned) VX inaugurated service from SFO to KOA last December (I was on the inaugural flight
).
Why operate with an A320, when it will be the one and only A320 to the island each day. Wouldn't a 737 make more sense ?
Switching all Hawaii service to 737 has to be a cost savings for AS. While 737 service in Hawaii isn't too big, you can at least enter into agreement with UA to share the manpower/inventory/costs somewhat. And I'm sure the 737 shares a lot of components with the 757, also helping to ease the pain.
I've loved your input so far on this forum, but on this topic I think you have a few facts mixed.
As jinglish has already stated, VX was flying the A320 to Hawaii long before they would have the A321 in the fleet.
When Hawaii first became a glimmer in VX's eye, it was soon clear that a "stock" A320 could not reliably, year round, meet FAA fuel requirements. "Fuel to destination" wasn't the issue, it was that fuel plus the more stringent FAA requirements for "reserve fuel" on over water flights that couldn't be met. The "sharklet" conversion saved the day, but like the A320 westbound transcon flights in the winter, would still have some days where the aircraft could not be legally dispatched on the route. I read somewhere that they hoped by the time their A321's arrived, their Hawaii markets would've grown enough to support the larger plane because that plane would not have the dispatch issues with reserve fuel. So while the A321 was always a part of VX's initial talks of going to Hawaii, it is FAR from being the "initially scheduled" aircraft.
I'd double check your data on the # of cycles before engine swap. A multi-million $$$ engine that requires overhaul every 400-500 cycles is an engine that's going to give its manufacturer many lawsuits.
I thought (but don't know for a fact) that the brand engine on AS' A321NEOS were not affected by all the recent issues (???)
The A320 (AS' are all CEO) is a completely different engine, so to answer the post you were replying to : No ... AS pulling Airbus aircraft from the Hawaii markets has nothing to do with issues on (other airlines ???) A321NEO engines.
Ask yourself ... what airlines operate narrow body (IE: A3xx series) Airbus aircraft to/from/within Hawaii ??
To the best of my knowledge, VX nee AS, is the ONLY such scheduled operator within the entire state.
I don't know how they have handled unshceduled maint problems while in Hawaii (with trained mechanics and/or a parts inventory). It's not like they can pick up the phone and call the local Airbus repair shop. However it was done, this had to cost VX serious $$$.
On a smaller scale, I thought the same when (a then AS owned) VX inaugurated service from SFO to KOA last December (I was on the inaugural flight
).Why operate with an A320, when it will be the one and only A320 to the island each day. Wouldn't a 737 make more sense ?
Switching all Hawaii service to 737 has to be a cost savings for AS. While 737 service in Hawaii isn't too big, you can at least enter into agreement with UA to share the manpower/inventory/costs somewhat. And I'm sure the 737 shares a lot of components with the 757, also helping to ease the pain.
Yes and no. I believe the HNL routes were initially scheduled with the 321neo, but because of the engine issues with the LEAP engines, they are not flying them to the islands until the issues are taken care of. As of July, LEAP engines were having to be swapped out every 400-500 cycles, as opposed to 12,000 cycles when compared to the CFM engines (320ceo and 737). Because of this, those routes were switched to the 320s, which have a large disadvantage over the 737 when operating to the islands (321 > 737 > 320).
As jinglish has already stated, VX was flying the A320 to Hawaii long before they would have the A321 in the fleet.
When Hawaii first became a glimmer in VX's eye, it was soon clear that a "stock" A320 could not reliably, year round, meet FAA fuel requirements. "Fuel to destination" wasn't the issue, it was that fuel plus the more stringent FAA requirements for "reserve fuel" on over water flights that couldn't be met. The "sharklet" conversion saved the day, but like the A320 westbound transcon flights in the winter, would still have some days where the aircraft could not be legally dispatched on the route. I read somewhere that they hoped by the time their A321's arrived, their Hawaii markets would've grown enough to support the larger plane because that plane would not have the dispatch issues with reserve fuel. So while the A321 was always a part of VX's initial talks of going to Hawaii, it is FAR from being the "initially scheduled" aircraft.
I'd double check your data on the # of cycles before engine swap. A multi-million $$$ engine that requires overhaul every 400-500 cycles is an engine that's going to give its manufacturer many lawsuits.
I thought (but don't know for a fact) that the brand engine on AS' A321NEOS were not affected by all the recent issues (???)
The A320 (AS' are all CEO) is a completely different engine, so to answer the post you were replying to : No ... AS pulling Airbus aircraft from the Hawaii markets has nothing to do with issues on (other airlines ???) A321NEO engines.
