Aug 11, 2018, 9:38 pm
Last edit by: jspira
The incident itself is covered here: Sea-Tac Horizon Air employee steals airplane, does stunts before crashing near Tacoma The errant pilot, Mr. Russell, apparently recognized he was in the midst of a crisis (From Theft of Aircraft in Seattle-Tacoma Raises Serious Security Questions): “I got a lot of people that care about me and it’s going to disappoint them to hear that I did this,” Mr. Russell said to air traffic controllers. “I would like to apologize to each and every one of them. Just a broken guy, got a few screws loose, I guess. Never really knew it until now.”
from post #10:
KSEA tower audio of the aircraft on RWY 16C: http://archive-server.liveatc.net/ks...2018-0230Z.mp3 (begins around 3:40)
from post #10:
KSEA tower audio of the aircraft on RWY 16C: http://archive-server.liveatc.net/ks...2018-0230Z.mp3 (begins around 3:40)
QX Q400 stolen by employee, crashed near SEA, no passengers onboard
Aug 12, 2018, 5:23 pm
#151
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Orlando, FL Area
Programs: Delta SkySponge ExtraAbsorbent, SPG Gold
Posts: 29,988
Did we listen to the same ATC recordings? This guy was unstable at very best and suicidal. He did not have the skills to land this plane safely, he was ignoring instructions on many things....don't barrel roll, attempt to make a landing at the military base, make basic turns....he was not following any of them. He was flying at unsafe heights and not staying over water as instructed.
Exactly when were you going to be alright with him being shot down?
Exactly when were you going to be alright with him being shot down?
Aug 12, 2018, 5:29 pm
#152
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Orlando, FL Area
Programs: Delta SkySponge ExtraAbsorbent, SPG Gold
Posts: 29,988
Do you really want to increase the workload on pilots when they are trying to restart an engine that failed after takeoff? We don't need any keys or passcodes screwing things up.
Aug 12, 2018, 5:31 pm
#153
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kirkland, WA
Programs: AS 75K,UA Gold 1.6MM, Hilton Dia, Marriott LT Plat, Hyatt Glb, Natl Exec, Hertz 5*
Posts: 3,657
How about using the keypad code lock on the cockpit door some airlines use?
Aug 12, 2018, 5:33 pm
#154
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
Small general aviation aircraft have keys, there is no need to turn the key to restart the engine unless one wishes to only use one of the mags. If he was a mechanic he very likely would've had access to the keys anyway
Aug 12, 2018, 5:38 pm
#155
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Northern Nevada
Programs: DL,EK
Posts: 1,652
Aug 12, 2018, 5:51 pm
#156
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: PHX
Programs: HHonors Lifetime Diamond, UA Million Miler Gold, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,142
Aug 12, 2018, 6:09 pm
#157
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Orlando, FL Area
Programs: Delta SkySponge ExtraAbsorbent, SPG Gold
Posts: 29,988
Aug 12, 2018, 6:18 pm
#158
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Back in Reds Country (DAY/CVG). Previously: SEA & SAT.
Programs: DL PM 1MM, AA PLAT, UA Silver, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 10,334
What's your role in NORAD or WADS or the DoD chain-of-command that you have authority on that decision or what insight do you have to the communications and discussion between the F-15s, NORAD, WADS, and senior military officials when such decisions were being made on whether to and when to shoot down the plane?
Aug 12, 2018, 6:54 pm
#159
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: BNA (Nashville)
Programs: HH Diamond
Posts: 6,225
What workload? I carry my remote in my pocket and my car starts when I push a button. This is really not ground breaking technology. It just seems to be.
Aug 12, 2018, 7:42 pm
#160
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K
Posts: 21,358
an engine failure immediately after takeoff is NOT just a “push a button” situation
Aug 12, 2018, 7:48 pm
#161
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: Southwest A-List; Alaska MVPG; Hilton Diamond; Avis PreferredPlus; Marriott Bonvoy Platinum Elite
Posts: 914
When I was a college student, several of us were authorized to drive the campus van. We had to have a reference check and submit our licenses in order to be “on the list.”
We didn’t have to maintain the vans or fuel them, but were ocassionally authorized to take them out for school business. The authorizing department had to reserve the vehicle, but we had to go check out the key in order to drive them. And... we had to bring back the key when we were done. You can imagine the chaos if someone forgot to return the key.
Is this relevant? I don’t know. We only had 5 or 6 vans, that returned to the same campus each night. Even so, we had to have a system (and personnel) to control the keys. I can’t imagine key control for a fleet of aircraft that move around the country. It would likely require a single full-time employee at each airport and an extra 5-10 minutes of time on every pilot’s time sheet. Failure to return a key at the end of a shift could result in an entire plane of pax cooling their jets.
We didn’t have to maintain the vans or fuel them, but were ocassionally authorized to take them out for school business. The authorizing department had to reserve the vehicle, but we had to go check out the key in order to drive them. And... we had to bring back the key when we were done. You can imagine the chaos if someone forgot to return the key.
Is this relevant? I don’t know. We only had 5 or 6 vans, that returned to the same campus each night. Even so, we had to have a system (and personnel) to control the keys. I can’t imagine key control for a fleet of aircraft that move around the country. It would likely require a single full-time employee at each airport and an extra 5-10 minutes of time on every pilot’s time sheet. Failure to return a key at the end of a shift could result in an entire plane of pax cooling their jets.
Last edited by twitch76; Aug 13, 2018 at 8:43 am
Aug 12, 2018, 8:06 pm
#162
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Frensham, Lincolnshire
Programs: RFC
Posts: 5,078
An awful lot of over reaction for a close-to-unique event. I look forward to people doing more about the rampant number of lightning striking people - it does, after all, occur far more often in the US than stolen plane events.
Aug 12, 2018, 8:11 pm
#163
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Frensham, Lincolnshire
Programs: RFC
Posts: 5,078
I'm pretty certain that you've never had your car at 1500 feet, 245mph, and climbing just when the engine cuts out. Planes are a leeeetle more complex than your Camry. Well, commercial jets are. A Cessna 172 is far less complicated than your Camry. But those do often have keys, so the question is moot on that front.
Aug 12, 2018, 8:18 pm
#164
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SNA
Programs: Bonvoy LTTE/AMB, AmEx Plat, National EE, WN A-List, CLEAR+, Covid-19
Posts: 4,963
"Do you want more security theater? 'Cause this is how you get more security theater!" - Sterling Archer (... paraphrased)
Aug 12, 2018, 8:32 pm
#165
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Posts: 9,989
Put this
on the yoke.
QED.
on the yoke.
QED.