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Why Does Anyone Fly Alaska? (Including Rants)

Why Does Anyone Fly Alaska? (Including Rants)

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Old Aug 12, 18, 5:24 pm
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Skyjumper View Post
United's flight attendants have had a single contract since 2016. Skift/Bloomberg
Hm, missed that. There are some fairly recent posts in UA forum suggesting that FAs don't cross over. Some posts referring to PMCO and PMUA crews as well.

Well, glad they finally got it approved.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 8:33 am
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Originally Posted by Pi7473000 View Post
I avoid Alaska out of SFO! I was a loyal VX flyer, but Alaska service is awful and bland. I am not impressed. I stick to Delta and some United mostly now and just connect when flying out of the Bay. Really sad that Alaska was allowed to take over VX and cheapen the brand for customers.
I didn't look at it as cheapening the brand as much as I did salvaging the viable parts of an airline with a unsustainable business model. Lots, though not all, jobs were saved. And sure, the integration hasn't been perfect, but it hasn't been a repeat of the UA fiasco.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 9:03 am
  #78  
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The people who work in customer service roles at AS are, on average, far better at their jobs than the people who work in customer service roles at any of the US3. That plus the traditional mileage based program are two of the primary reasons I fly AS when I can.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 10:27 am
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Originally Posted by WillTravel4Food View Post
And sure, the integration hasn't been perfect, but it hasn't been a repeat of the UA fiasco.
Perhaps operationally as AS took over the VX assets and everything was done according to AS rules and procedures, etc. The fleet was tiny, everything was just moved to AS FF program and reservation system. Even the past flying from VX loyalty members was completely dismissed in calculating life time flying. This was obviously much easier than merging two giant airlines together and trying to take things--even as simple as the livery--from both.

Financially, it is still very much a question as to whether or not it will be a fiasco for AS. ALK share holders have certainly not benefited from the 100 to 60 share price drop.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 11:00 am
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Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
Even the past flying from VX loyalty members was completely dismissed in calculating life time flying.
VX never had lifetime status, nor did they track lifetime flying. If you didn't earn status every year on VX, you went back to being an ordinary joe no matter how much prior VX flying you did. What exactly was dismissed by AS?
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Old Aug 13, 18, 3:06 pm
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Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
Perhaps operationally as AS took over the VX assets and everything was done according to AS rules and procedures, etc. The fleet was tiny, everything was just moved to AS FF program and reservation system. Even the past flying from VX loyalty members was completely dismissed in calculating life time flying. This was obviously much easier than merging two giant airlines together and trying to take things--even as simple as the livery--from both.

Financially, it is still very much a question as to whether or not it will be a fiasco for AS. ALK share holders have certainly not benefited from the 100 to 60 share price drop.
Yes, this was an acquisition (of an airline with a clearly failed business model), not a merger. It remains true that they have handled the integration very smoothly, even if customers of that airline with a failed business model don't like the changes to the customer experience. (sfozrhfco's position on the matter is clear.)

This has been rehashed once or thrice in this forum, but the relevant comparison is not how ALK share holders were doing before and after the merger but how they were doing before and how they would be doing if B6 had bought VX instead. It is not clear whether AS will remain financially successful when this merger is fully shaken out, but I doubt they would have been in good shape if B6VX were a very large west coast and transcon competitor.
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Old Aug 14, 18, 11:33 am
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Forgot to mention, free bikes can be a yuge money-saver if you want to fly with your bike. Other airlines charge ~$150/way.
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Old Aug 14, 18, 12:16 pm
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Originally Posted by EmailKid View Post
Hm, missed that. There are some fairly recent posts in UA forum suggesting that FAs don't cross over. Some posts referring to PMCO and PMUA crews as well.

Well, glad they finally got it approved.
The contract was approved in 2016 but the FAs are still functionally sUA and sCO until this fall. It's been a sore point at hubs that maintain both sUA and sCO bases- sUA FAs with 20 years seniority are stuck on reserve while sCO FAs with as little as 3 years (or something like that, I'm too lazy to go find the chart) hold lines at the same hub.
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Old Aug 14, 18, 1:37 pm
  #84  
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Originally Posted by chrisl137 View Post
The contract was approved in 2016 but the FAs are still functionally sUA and sCO until this fall. It's been a sore point at hubs that maintain both sUA and sCO bases- sUA FAs with 20 years seniority are stuck on reserve while sCO FAs with as little as 3 years (or something like that, I'm too lazy to go find the chart) hold lines at the same hub.
Thanks, so I did have it right - they are still flying separately (signed contract being uselss for all intents and purposes if it's not in effect until fall)

Yes, some comments in the less frequented threads (and harder to search IMO) about very senior FAs basically getting the shaft.

IMHO, DL and AS got it right: it's not a merger, it's a takeover / purchase. United Continental Holdings as merger of equals, um, not so much. Jury is still out on AA merger, again IMHO

I don't have a dog in AS merger, and I certainly understand why Virgin fliers would be unhappy about losing what they came to expect, but from posts and my own personal reading outside FT, it seems that fliers LOVED Virgin, but investors, not so much as it was / is an unsustainable model, i.e. not making money when all others are making money hand over fist while the economy is booming.
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Old Aug 14, 18, 3:38 pm
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Originally Posted by EmailKid View Post
Yes, some comments in the less frequented threads (and harder to search IMO) about very senior FAs basically getting the shaft.
I have an acquaintance who's a very senior sUA out of LAX and has been very frustrated by what looks like better treatment of sCO FAs.

I don't have a dog in AS merger, and I certainly understand why Virgin fliers would be unhappy about losing what they came to expect, but from posts and my own personal reading outside FT, it seems that fliers LOVED Virgin, but investors, not so much as it was / is an unsustainable model, i.e. not making money when all others are making money hand over fist while the economy is booming.
I was neither an AS or VX flyer before - I think I flew VX once before the merger and didn't see what the fuss was about. The F seats on AS are more comfortable than on a UA 737 and are fine for transcons. The F seats in VX are definitely nicer, but aren't like a lie-flat, which is what it would take to get me to fly a redeye for work. I started flying AS when my partner got a job in PDX last year, so now I commute. My work tends to default to UA, though I can pick alternates. Compared to UA with status, AS with just MVP has been fantastic. Compared to any of the US3 without status, AS without status is still preferable.
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Old Aug 14, 18, 3:48 pm
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Originally Posted by EmailKid View Post

it seems that fliers LOVED Virgin, but investors, not so much as it was / is an unsustainable model, i.e. not making money when all others are making money hand over fist while the economy is booming.
Investors LOVED VX. Virgin allowed Silver and Gold members to buy at the IPO price and we were able to sell the day the buy out was announced for double the price in a fairly short time frame. They won big. The customers and ALK..not so much so far.
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Old Aug 14, 18, 3:54 pm
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Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
(SOME) (i)nvestors LOVED VX. Virgin allowed Silver and Gold members to buy at the IPO price and we were able to sell the day the buy out was announced for double the price in a fairly short time frame. They won big. The customers and ALK..not so much so far.
I would tend to believe that the vast majority of VX stockholders were not Elevate members who were able to take advantage of that sweetheart deal
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Last edited by dayone; Aug 14, 18 at 5:35 pm Reason: Added parentheses to highlight text added to quote.
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Old Aug 14, 18, 4:29 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
I would tend to believe that the vast majority of VX stockholders were not Elevate members who were able to take advantage of that sweetheart deal
Everybody that held stock made money. Even those that bought later made out like bandits as ALK paid such a ridiculous premium.
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Old Aug 14, 18, 4:58 pm
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Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
Investors LOVED VX. Virgin allowed Silver and Gold members to buy at the IPO price and we were able to sell the day the buy out was announced for double the price in a fairly short time frame. They won big. The customers and ALK..not so much so far.
Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
I would tend to believe that the vast majority of VX stockholders were not Elevate members who were able to take advantage of that sweetheart deal
Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
Everybody that held stock made money. Even those that bought later made out like bandits as ALK paid such a ridiculous premium.
Well, they made have made out like bandits, but MAJOR investors weren't happy with the way VX was run. Sir Richard made a big deal of snagging DAL slots / gates, but again could not figure out how to make money there, something WN had no problem doing. And it appears that AS isn't having success with figuring out what to do with DAL either. UA did - they leased their two gates for an obscene amount of money to WN

Last edited by EmailKid; Aug 14, 18 at 7:55 pm Reason: On the other hand ...
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Old Aug 14, 18, 5:24 pm
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Originally Posted by EmailKid View Post
OK, we will see if your post gets edited, as it's against FT rules to alter / edit quoted posts.
Huh?
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