Single_Flyer

Someone on Facebook claims to have been on the flight and wrote this message:

I was on was that flight from JFK to LAX yesterday. Initially I was seated in premium class, 3F.

I saw those two gents board the plane. I remember them because they were among the last passengers to board.

A gate agent came onboard the plane and upgraded me to 1D (I had been at the top of that list already).

After I moved to first class, I started hearing snippets of conversation from the purser and his two assistants about something going on with these gents. One of the things I heard was something about alcohol. Either one of the gents had been angry about not being served alcohol or misrepresented himself as being in first class. I just heard tidbits so that’s the best I could understand.

Also another thing I heard was that while sitting in an emergency row seat, one of the gents would not verbally respond to the flight attendant.

The purser talked to the captain. I didn’t hear what was said, but the next thing I know, we push back from the gate.

A few minutes later, another flight attendant comes up to the purser and they have a conversation. Shortly after that, the plane pulls back up to the gate. The captain comes out and talks to the purser. And it’s decided to remove the two gentlemen from the plane.

Once the door opens, the gate agent boards and talks to the purser and the captain. The gate agent then goes to remove the two passengers.

Once they deplaned, the rest of trip went forward without a hitch, although we arrived a little late.

I don’t know fully know what all happened but I doubt it was discrimination because they were gay. Why? Because I believe the purser himself was a gay man. And he couldn’t have been any nicer. The service on that trip provided by the purser was nothing short of fantastic.

Alaska is an excellent airline. I hope both parties can resolve this and move forward.

Of course anyone can claim to have been on the flight, so take it with a grain of salt.

Eastbay1K

As you know, from having recently flown AS First Class, there's not much more than a grain of salt to take it with, even if we wanted to take it with more.

CDKing

Its hard to tell but even with the information and disinformation no mention of plane going back to the gate that I have seen. Also looking at flightaware I don't see anything that sticks out on AS1407

Proudelitist

Is it DYKWIA to be upset about being kicked out a premium seat to play reunite the couple? Seems like justified anger to me, gay or not.

CDKing

I don't buy the accommodate a couple. Why was only one of them asked to move and not both?

isaac.chambers

I am a former ops/gate agent; my partner is a former cabin crew.....AS/VX has to be the most inclusive company out there. This is a simply DYNWIA and/or a simple seating mix-up....happens to EVERYONE regardless of who you are. I kinda feel this was to get free publicity and sympathy business for his bar. I used to live in LA for a long time - the Abbey was never a place i liked to go (overpriced drinks, rude waitstaff, snobby crowd every time i went).

bocastephen

Assuming there is no seat dupe or other technical issue and it's just a personal preference of the flight crew to sit two people together, being forced to move to ANY other seat, premium or not, is completely unacceptable. Being ASKED if one would mind changing seats to accommodate a couple travel together where I could accept or decline, well that's fine, but being forced to? No way.

This isn't a gay issue, but perhaps the angry bar owner felt his "couple status" wasn't being given equal weight to the other passenger's "couple status", which would then make it a gay issue, but we have no evidence yet that shows this is exactly what happened.

So, so far we have:

1. technical glitch/seat dupe
2. self-upgrading boyfriend because bar owner was too cheap to book them both in premium economy
3. someone on a buddy pass (but no idea who
4. nasty inflight crew with a chip on their shoulder
5. someone is drunk

My rule is thus: if I am asked to move to a similar seat in a nice way, I will generally move. If I am ordered to do so, I will refuse. If the new seat is less desirable, I will refuse. If the person asking plumps their rump down into my seat before I arrive and demands I concede to their request, I will refuse and have them removed from my seat (and refuse to sit down until that happens).

Without a bona fide witness to what happened onboard, we may never know aside from the claims made by the bar owner who seems to be, by reputation, incredibly obnoxious.

Proudelitist

I thought both were. If not tho, assuming 3 seats across, one of the requesting couple was probably already in the row.

CDKing

Since they were a couple, they weren't going to split up so both left the plane.

luitje

spin88

I think this is the real issue. Look, the travel world has changed. Seats have gotten tighter and less comfortable, and getting promised an "upgrade" into a seat that AS charges upwards of $99 on for a TCON, that "upgrade" has - according to AS - value. It is not like the old days where pitch was 32/33" and the exit row or bulkhead row was something sophisticated travelers know to ask for.

Now that AS has "Premium Class" - and especially on a TCON, they can't just take away that seat to give to someone else when its a better seat, marketed by AS as being in a "different class" of service. United appears to have (partially) learned that lesson, and it looks like AS needs to learn it as well. I have been asked before to move for a family/partner/spouse, and am happy to do so, but that should not ever result in a worse seat, and particularly the airline should not do it to clean up a mess they created.


This is a good summary, I don't hold the (very common) assumptions in these situations by individual employees (who may themselves be LGBT) against Alaska, what I hold against them is (evidently) not having a policy in place to address times when they seek a "cabin downgrade" as occurred here. It should be voluntary, and then compensation be given. And if they say no, well possession in 99% of the law....

wwongo

Alaska’s response on twitter surprises me. I would have assumed that it was not official policy to give couples preferential treatment and that was just the flight attendant’s decision but they state in the twitter statement that it is official policy to keep “families together”. That makes total sense when we are talking about people traveling with a child or a person with a handicap but adult couples? Why?As part of a gay couple (women), I do know how tiresome being assumed to not be a couple can be and I find how quick some people are to assume that there could not be any discrimination just as tiresome, frankly. I also know that some well off gay people can act just as entitled as their straight counterparts. I don’t know any details about this case beyond the official statement by Alaska, So I am not going to pass judgment on the passenger’s behavior as justified or not without more details. It does appear from the statement that AS is not denying that they were asked to move to accommodate a straight couple. At least no other reason is given. I think AS set themselves up for this by not having a clear transparent system for dealing with an error in seat booking which will obviously make people angry. I can’t see any justification for a system where staff are in the position of deciding who is “family” enough to bump someone else. If any two people booked a flight together and reserved seats together they wanted to sit together. My partner does not actually fly but I do fly with other family members sometimes (adult kids, mother). I’d be interested to know what the family ranking is for priority and what proof of family relationship they require for this “families together” priority. Most of the time though, I fly alone and I reserve the seat I want and I would not want to be told I had to move to accommodate a couple. I might do it if asked nicely, but I would be angry if it was insisted that I give up a seat I was already in. They really need to work on that policy.

pcoll

I suspect that there is more to this than we have been led to believe.
The gentlemen involved have put their spin on it. The fact that they were in the exit row was not mentioned before.
Having been on many flights with passengers who are loud with the "notice me" vibe. Very plentiful on LAX flights.
One passenger (in F) loudly talking on his cell phone during boarding, snapping his fingers for more drinks and snacks to FA, who kept bring him more and more. Pretty shocked at this but, not my job. By push back, he had 4 drinks and 4 bags of chips and still trying to close his "recording deal".
If the FA was able to assess that their might be a issue with safety (non-compliance or alcohol) then the decision might be to not have that passenger in exit row. Who knows for sure?
I have been in 1C and overheard many conversations regarding FA concerns about passengers who boarded and do not want to comply to their requests. (No, you cannot have lap child in exit row etc)
My 2 cents.

be_rettSEA

I took the "keeping families together" statement as a reference to the couple that ultimately decided to deplane - that they were sorry they weren't able keep them together in this instance. I don't think their official policy is to ask passengers with seat assignments to move in order to allow a couple or a family to sit together (except maybe in the case of a passenger with a disability or younger children traveling with guardians). If they are making a policy statement that they'll seat everyone together, what good are seat assignments? The official statement they put out, in my opinion, feels as if they're still trying to figure out exactly what happened, just like we all are, but even as a gay man, I'm still not seeing proof that this was a case of discrimination or even preferential treatment toward a heterosexual couple; it truly seems like some fairly entitled folks had something go wrong (as can happen with air travel from time to time), decided not to fly because of it, and then are shouting "Alaska is anti-LGBT!" from the rooftops to get some attention.

nearlysober

Regarding the "keeping families together" policy... I've seen GA's do gymnastics trying to move people around to allow people to sit together, especially parents & kids (which is nice). Of course if airlines would just let these families book together instead of only offering them middle seats throughout the plane, that'd also be nice.

I usually fly with friends. We always try to sit next to each other, but we're usually on separate PNRs. Despite booking together, we'll sometimes get moved around. Bumped up or back a row. Usually keeping our same window or aisle seat but in a new row and never being bumped completely down a cabin.

I assume most those small moves are because they look at the ticket and think "Is this guy really gonna care if he's in 8C instead of 7C?" and 99% of the time is - no I don't care. If that let a couple sit together, or a parent with a child - cool.

We still don't know if this couple was on the same PNR, or the whole back story... so its hard to place blame with anyone. Seating mishaps happen, its part of flying. Be an adult, work with your surroundings, and get on with life.