AS F service dropping to new lows
Jun 14, 2018, 4:00 pm
#91
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SFO, mostly
Posts: 2,204
I'm not playing that lottery for a "high likelihood of an upgrade" when I am prepared to buy a reasonably-priced premium fare, and someone else has one available when I want to travel.
Back to the premise of the OP, AS has actually had worse service and morale - comparatively a lot worse, 20-some years ago, when the show was run by this guy
Back to the premise of the OP, AS has actually had worse service and morale - comparatively a lot worse, 20-some years ago, when the show was run by this guy
Last edited by sltlyamusd; Jun 14, 2018 at 4:06 pm
Jun 14, 2018, 4:35 pm
#92
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
I thought a premise of this community was to empower an informed and better educated consumer. If you'd prefer to focus on limited marketing information posted on a website, that's cool. I thought it would be value added if current/potential purchasers of Alaska F understand that the product will be constrained by AS' a) goal of having maintaining a lower cost structure, b) stated focus on a specific market segment, and c) willingness to make the F cabin more accessible by having a consistent and generous upgrade policy across the entire network and selling fewer seats.
As has UA. As has AA. As has DL. As has my local Safeway. Every company is going to fail eventually if you regularly do business with them. Expecting perfection every time is an unreasonable expectation. Suggesting someone leave when every little detail is not perfect is also an unreasonable expectation. It's also unproductive -- they should be called out on their weaknesses so they can improve. AS has done that.
Jun 14, 2018, 6:20 pm
#93
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: AS G100K, DL PM, IHG Gold, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 843
You make a good point and raise an interesting question: is there a correlation between pricing and product quality?
In many other industries, there is (or at least a correlation between pricing and perceived quality). I think the correlation is weaker or non-existent for domestic US air travel when purchase decisions are primarily driven by convenience and availability and pricing transparency drives nearly-instant competitive matching. I would agree there can be a disconnect for passengers, primarily on premium transcon markets where Alaska is selling F for the same or higher prices as lie-flat C/J on other carriers. I would point out this plays into Alaska's strategy of enabling more access with complimentary upgrades. If AS set F lower, it would likely sell out the cabin, eliminating the possibility of upgrades. At the same time, if AS is setting F prices at a level that is noncompetitive due to a weak value proposition, it won't sell any F seats. Ultimately, the market will determine if F pricing is right.
Ultimately, I still think customers need to understand Alaska's strategy when setting their expectations on the quality of the F product. If you need PDBs or pillows or amenity kits or in-seat IFE or Mint-style tapas, you will be disappointed on Alaska. You will also need to be willing to purchase F to get these benefits on other carriers.
In many other industries, there is (or at least a correlation between pricing and perceived quality). I think the correlation is weaker or non-existent for domestic US air travel when purchase decisions are primarily driven by convenience and availability and pricing transparency drives nearly-instant competitive matching. I would agree there can be a disconnect for passengers, primarily on premium transcon markets where Alaska is selling F for the same or higher prices as lie-flat C/J on other carriers. I would point out this plays into Alaska's strategy of enabling more access with complimentary upgrades. If AS set F lower, it would likely sell out the cabin, eliminating the possibility of upgrades. At the same time, if AS is setting F prices at a level that is noncompetitive due to a weak value proposition, it won't sell any F seats. Ultimately, the market will determine if F pricing is right.
Ultimately, I still think customers need to understand Alaska's strategy when setting their expectations on the quality of the F product. If you need PDBs or pillows or amenity kits or in-seat IFE or Mint-style tapas, you will be disappointed on Alaska. You will also need to be willing to purchase F to get these benefits on other carriers.
but if they want to give most of those seats away as free upgrades, FFs including me will have no objections on that ��
Last edited by BW Flyer; Jun 14, 2018 at 6:26 pm Reason: corrected a typo
Jun 14, 2018, 6:33 pm
#94
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,388
Good points. But I would imagine AS' intention is to sell most F seats instead of giving them away as free upgrades. So shouldn't they set their F prices at levels that can sell? The market supply and demand should determine those levels in different markets, and in an full and open competitive market, an inferior product should command a lower price if the vendor (in this case AS) want to sell the product and make money.
but if they want to give most of those seats away as free upgrades, FFs including me will have no objections on that ��
but if they want to give most of those seats away as free upgrades, FFs including me will have no objections on that ��
Jun 14, 2018, 7:39 pm
#95
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
Programs: AS MVPG, HA Plat
Posts: 1,268
I'm also perfectly satisfied with AS's first class product and don't put a whole lot of value on lie-flat seating on daytime flights, so I may be missing the point of this thread completely.
Jun 14, 2018, 8:32 pm
#96
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
Good points. But I would imagine AS' intention is to sell most F seats instead of giving them away as free upgrades. So shouldn't they set their F prices at levels that can sell? The market supply and demand should determine those levels in different markets, and in an full and open competitive market, an inferior product should command a lower price if the vendor (in this case AS) want to sell the product and make money.
but if they want to give most of those seats away as free upgrades, FFs including me will have no objections on that ��
Jun 14, 2018, 9:25 pm
#97
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,837
Jun 14, 2018, 10:01 pm
#98
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: AS G100K, DL PM, IHG Gold, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 843
if this is the case, we could count this as an unique benefits for MP elite flyers.
Jun 14, 2018, 10:58 pm
#99
Join Date: Sep 2001
Programs: Alaska Tanzanite 100K
Posts: 3,858
I just flew Juneau - Seattle - Edmonton up front and everything was fine. Drinks constantly refilled. Breakfast was different (eggs with potatoes), but everything was done with a smile and the FA on JNU/SIT/SEA had drinks to row 1 at the same time the FA walked back with the plastic cups and water bottle.
Gogo worked (sssoo happy to see the Disney Film Festival Pixar shorts on Vision!), seats were comfy, and we only had to land once. And walked away.
Praise jesus.
I can live without lie flat seats - give me great legroom, a happy crew, and at least decent service.
Gogo worked (sssoo happy to see the Disney Film Festival Pixar shorts on Vision!), seats were comfy, and we only had to land once. And walked away.
Praise jesus.
I can live without lie flat seats - give me great legroom, a happy crew, and at least decent service.
Jun 14, 2018, 11:18 pm
#100
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Anchorage, AK
Programs: Lifetime AS 1MM & MVPG, AS MVPG100K, AA, DL, HH-G
Posts: 8,259
I just flew Juneau - Seattle - Edmonton up front and everything was fine. Drinks constantly refilled. Breakfast was different (eggs with potatoes), but everything was done with a smile and the FA on JNU/SIT/SEA had drinks to row 1 at the same time the FA walked back with the plastic cups and water bottle.
Gogo worked (sssoo happy to see the Disney Film Festival Pixar shorts on Vision!), seats were comfy, and we only had to land once. And walked away.
Praise jesus.
I can live without lie flat seats - give me great legroom, a happy crew, and at least decent service.
Gogo worked (sssoo happy to see the Disney Film Festival Pixar shorts on Vision!), seats were comfy, and we only had to land once. And walked away.
Praise jesus.
I can live without lie flat seats - give me great legroom, a happy crew, and at least decent service.
Jun 15, 2018, 8:13 am
#101
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
4Q17: "[Airbus reconfiguration] will drive both incremental revenues and the ability for our Elites to obtain better access to upgrades."
Maintaining "better access to upgrades" has been a consistent theme pre- and post-merger.
In contrast, DAL has given analysts specific and increasing targets for F sales/buy-ups, effectively saying domestic upgrades will be limited to Comfort+.
Maintaining "better access to upgrades" has been a consistent theme pre- and post-merger.
In contrast, DAL has given analysts specific and increasing targets for F sales/buy-ups, effectively saying domestic upgrades will be limited to Comfort+.
Jun 15, 2018, 3:36 pm
#102
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Seattle
Programs: AS MM, MVPGold100k, Hilton Diamond, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 1,475
Small data point, recent trips have been SEA-ORD-SEA in FC both ways, SEA-SJC-SEA in PE out FC back, SEA-LAS-SEA PE out FC back, SEA-SAN-SEA FC both ways. The service was notably good in each of those trips and on the last one I even got champagne as a PDB once the FA heard it was my birthday 
FAs were interacting with passengers that wanted to chat, kept refills and sevice going (the PE flights just had the normal serves but gladly gave out doubles to those that asked). Good legroom and friendly staff, I really appreciate that. On one flight the captain came out to chat a bit, BUT - he did not limit it to FC, he walked to the back of the plane and interacted with customers all the way to the very end. I have never seen that before!
FAs were interacting with passengers that wanted to chat, kept refills and sevice going (the PE flights just had the normal serves but gladly gave out doubles to those that asked). Good legroom and friendly staff, I really appreciate that. On one flight the captain came out to chat a bit, BUT - he did not limit it to FC, he walked to the back of the plane and interacted with customers all the way to the very end. I have never seen that before!
Last edited by ctporter; Jun 15, 2018 at 3:38 pm Reason: added info
Jun 15, 2018, 4:12 pm
#103
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,837
4Q17: "[Airbus reconfiguration] will drive both incremental revenues and the ability for our Elites to obtain better access to upgrades."
Maintaining "better access to upgrades" has been a consistent theme pre- and post-merger.
In contrast, DAL has given analysts specific and increasing targets for F sales/buy-ups, effectively saying domestic upgrades will be limited to Comfort+.
Maintaining "better access to upgrades" has been a consistent theme pre- and post-merger.
In contrast, DAL has given analysts specific and increasing targets for F sales/buy-ups, effectively saying domestic upgrades will be limited to Comfort+.
Jun 15, 2018, 4:21 pm
#104
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SEA, SoCal
Programs: AS 75K, DL Plat, AA, WN, Hertz, HHonors, Marriott
Posts: 1,306
The inflight service is still reasonably good, but the new meal “options” on west-coast flights are straight up garbage. Considering that Delta serves up hot meals featuring local Seattle resteraunts, the choice of protein plate vs. “Za’atar” chicken salad on every flight is downright pathetic.
Jun 15, 2018, 10:50 pm
#105
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pacific Wonderland
Programs: ʙᴏɴᴠo̱ʏ Au, IHG Au, HH Dia, Nexus, Pilot FlyingJ Preferred
Posts: 5,336
The inflight service is still reasonably good, but the new meal “options” on west-coast flights are straight up garbage. Considering that Delta serves up hot meals featuring local Seattle resteraunts, the choice of protein plate vs. “Za’atar” chicken salad on every flight is downright pathetic.
https://blog.alaskaair.com/food-and-...n-first-class/
Quintious nailed it in the First Class meal thread- too much divisive ingredients. Rhubarb-thyme compote on French toast? Really?