AS to Introduce "Saver Fares" (Basic Economy), End Fee Waivers and Add Fees
Apr 30, 2018, 9:14 am
#151
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: BART Platinum, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 1,157
I don't think this is true. If it was, Alaska would not sell G/T/R fares. Without the low fare buckets many planes would have a lot of empty seats especially on less popular days or times of year.
I fly a wide range of fares because I can book in advance but I am not flexible on the days. Sometimes I get R and sometimes I pay M. It is supply and demand but planes have the same number of seats no matter the demand so it's the fare that needs to change with the demand. Airlines can't really afford to lose the fare sensitive. That's what Basic Economy is about competing for those people.
I fly a wide range of fares because I can book in advance but I am not flexible on the days. Sometimes I get R and sometimes I pay M. It is supply and demand but planes have the same number of seats no matter the demand so it's the fare that needs to change with the demand. Airlines can't really afford to lose the fare sensitive. That's what Basic Economy is about competing for those people.
The point of granting elite status, from AS’s perspective, is that it’s supposed to identify and reward flyers who are willing to pay a premium for AS. I don’t think they’ll care if they lose some elites who aren’t willing to pay for more than R.
Apr 30, 2018, 9:28 am
#152
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Seattle WA
Programs: AS 100K, Marriott LT Platinum
Posts: 1,828
Yep. I might say it slightly differently -- "AS doesn't want to sell its full product at the same price that other airlines are selling their Basic product"
Airlines don't have much difficulty (at the moment) finding other people to buy their cheapest fares on most routes on most days. AS in fact saves money at least in the short term by selling the R fare to a non-elite/non-member.
The experiences of AA, DL and UA have shown that the business model does not collapse when you add this new "tax", however odious it feels. In fact, it's a new cash machine.
Left to its own devices, I think AS would have continued without it. But Wall Street has a lot of influence, and they were not willing to let AS leave $100+M/year on the table
Watch and see when JetBlue caves and joins the party...
May 2, 2018, 2:26 pm
#153
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 205
Certainly they want to fill the seats, but that doesn’t mean they want to give elite benefits and full EQMs for bargain fares.
The point of granting elite status, from AS’s perspective, is that it’s supposed to identify and reward flyers who are willing to pay a premium for AS. I don’t think they’ll care if they lose some elites who aren’t willing to pay for more than R.
May 2, 2018, 6:25 pm
#154
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: ANC
Programs: AS (75K+ miles flown) | Marriott Rewards | MLife Sapphire | Identity Silver | Hertz Gold Plus |
Posts: 209
I see your point about benefits. Personally, I'm waiting to see the details. The reality is that if the surcharge for avoiding basic economy isn't too much, I will probably grumble and pay it just like resort fees and other annoying surcharges. I often do already pay a premium for AS but so far it has been worth it to me. This is an ever evolving calculus that will come out differently for each person.
This also brings up the arugment that since we the fare payers wanted a cheaper ticket via majority, we made our own bed. Wonder how the airlines would screw us over then, those "half-standing" seats come to mind.
May 11, 2018, 9:02 am
#156
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: LAX
Programs: AS MVPG, IHG Diamond Elite
Posts: 1,445
AS has not provided this level of detail yet, but since they've pointed to upgrades not permitted for elites, I would anticipate the saver fares would not qualify for PC upgrades, either.
May 12, 2018, 3:42 pm
#157
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Programs: Hilton Platinum, Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,363
These changes are a big mistake. More and more Alaska is going head to head with Southwest and the change fees are real. Alaska had something good when it had the 60 day credit rule; it was not as good as Southwest, but it was pretty darn good.
Brad Tilden sees dollar signs and can't see the alienation of the customer.
Brad Tilden sees dollar signs and can't see the alienation of the customer.
Jun 7, 2018, 9:56 pm
#158
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,305
Jul 12, 2018, 12:31 pm
#159
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bay Area
Programs: HH, PC, SPG, MR, GP, US, UA, AA
Posts: 3,448
If I booked a 2 segments CX J award, 1st leg in PE, 2nd in J. As a general member, do I have to pay the $125 change fee if J space becomes available for the 1st leg? Thanks.
Jul 12, 2018, 3:16 pm
#160
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: LAX
Programs: AS MVPG, IHG Diamond Elite
Posts: 1,445
I haven't seen this explicitly detailed anywhere, but my guess would be yes, you'd need to pay the change fee (unless you booked prior to 6/5, are more than 60 days from departure, and have not yet used your one free change since the new policies went into effect). Even non-elites traveling as companions with Golds wanting to up-fare to higher fare classes (for upgrades, etc) are subject to the fee on AS metal, so I don't see how this would be any different for awards.
Jul 12, 2018, 3:32 pm
#161
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,375
I haven't seen this explicitly detailed anywhere, but my guess would be yes, you'd need to pay the change fee (unless you booked prior to 6/5, are more than 60 days from departure, and have not yet used your one free change since the new policies went into effect). Even non-elites traveling as companions with Golds wanting to up-fare to higher fare classes (for upgrades, etc) are subject to the fee on AS metal, so I don't see how this would be any different for awards.
If OP was flying Y+/J but wanted to go to J/F on CX (and thus needed to pay more miles) I think that WOULD be the case where the fee would be imposed, because that is an award reissue that changes the actual award. In this case OP just wants the cabin booked and originally paid for on an identical itinerary, and is just waiting for space in the cabin.
Jul 12, 2018, 3:53 pm
#162
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bay Area
Programs: HH, PC, SPG, MR, GP, US, UA, AA
Posts: 3,448
Thank you for the replies.
I haven't seen this explicitly detailed anywhere, but my guess would be yes, you'd need to pay the change fee (unless you booked prior to 6/5, are more than 60 days from departure, and have not yet used your one free change since the new policies went into effect). Even non-elites traveling as companions with Golds wanting to up-fare to higher fare classes (for upgrades, etc) are subject to the fee on AS metal, so I don't see how this would be any different for awards.
It's not a new award if OP is booked and paid for in J for all segments of the award but is flying in Y+ because there is no J space for that segment. The magic words to use are "place me in the cabin I have booked the award in, there is now award space available in my originally booked class of travel, I accepted a downgrade on that segment because there was no space available".
If OP was flying Y+/J but wanted to go to J/F on CX (and thus needed to pay more miles) I think that WOULD be the case where the fee would be imposed, because that is an award reissue that changes the actual award. In this case OP just wants the cabin booked and originally paid for on an identical itinerary, and is just waiting for space in the cabin.
If OP was flying Y+/J but wanted to go to J/F on CX (and thus needed to pay more miles) I think that WOULD be the case where the fee would be imposed, because that is an award reissue that changes the actual award. In this case OP just wants the cabin booked and originally paid for on an identical itinerary, and is just waiting for space in the cabin.
Jul 12, 2018, 4:44 pm
#163
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pacific Wonderland
Programs: ʙᴏɴᴠo̱ʏ Au, IHG Au, HH Dia, Nexus, Pilot FlyingJ Preferred
Posts: 5,336
The one exception for companions is on an award booked using a Gold/75K member's miles. The change/cancellation fee is waived in that case.
Jul 12, 2018, 8:41 pm
#164
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: BLI
Programs: Alaska Million Mile Flyer, Marriott Lifetime Titanium Elite
Posts: 3,193
I assume that's for upfaring only? Because I'm a Gold who has traveling with a non-status companion, and any change led to a change fee ... at least, it did if I didn't immediately book a new itinerary for both of us.
Jul 12, 2018, 9:10 pm
#165
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pacific Wonderland
Programs: ʙᴏɴᴠo̱ʏ Au, IHG Au, HH Dia, Nexus, Pilot FlyingJ Preferred
Posts: 5,336
As an MVP™ Gold, my change fees are waived. What about for my family?
While anyone traveling with you in the same reservation will have their luggage fees waived, the change fee will apply to all passengers other than the MVP Gold. The exception is if your fellow passengers are booked on an award ticket using your miles; in that case, change fees are waived.
While anyone traveling with you in the same reservation will have their luggage fees waived, the change fee will apply to all passengers other than the MVP Gold. The exception is if your fellow passengers are booked on an award ticket using your miles; in that case, change fees are waived.
Unrelated, but since this is the thread for new fees, I noticed this one
Guadalajara baggage changes: For tickets purchased or last exchanged on or after June 19, 2018, guests traveling to/from Guadalajara will be charged standard baggage fees.
So no more first free bag to/from GDL.
