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AS to Introduce "Saver Fares" (Basic Economy), End Fee Waivers and Add Fees

AS to Introduce "Saver Fares" (Basic Economy), End Fee Waivers and Add Fees

Old Apr 23, 2018, 7:35 pm
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by UAPremierExec
The jump to a "regular" fare is only $20ish.
People said this in the DL forum when basic economy was introduced, too. Now, the fare difference can be $70 or more...
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Old Apr 23, 2018, 7:41 pm
  #47  
 
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Originally Posted by Bretmd
I also read on OMAAT that Alaska will start selling exit row seats. Presumably continuing to make them free to elites but selling to non-elites? If true, this would make MVP less valuable to me; since exit row availability would likely decrease. As a tall person,sitting in an exit row makes a big difference to me.
17CD are the only reason i still fly Alaska. Ive never received a single upgrade to Premium Class since it was introduced - as a mere MVPG Im not eligible at time of booking, and all the good seats are always gone by the time the upgrade window opens. Id rather sit in an exit row than get stuck in an aisle or middle, so I usually decline the premium upgrade waitlist and choose an exit row seat instead. And with the F cabin reductions, I rarely stand a chance of an upgrade there either unless I can spend a certificate.

If these seats stop becoming readily available for elites, the last benefit I really care about from MVPG is gone. Day of departure sales would be fine; time of booking would not.

(Alaska has also been winning some of my domestic business vs. Delta by not having basic economy fares, but it sounds like thats about to end, too.)
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Old Apr 23, 2018, 7:55 pm
  #48  
 
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Originally Posted by BenA


People said this in the DL forum when basic economy was introduced, too. Now, the fare difference can be $70 or more...
Exactly. They are not going to get $100 million in incremental revenue a year to start by having the differential be small. If they make basic economy too good, nobody is going to pay extra. If they charge too little for regular economy, they have no chance to meet their revenue goal. If their product is not much different than competitors, they could easily alienate more passengers. Management needs to come up with some original idea to get people to pay more for something passengers actually want. Thus far, they have lacked any creativity.
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Old Apr 23, 2018, 8:09 pm
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Legend717
Sure, bad news is bad news, but I'm tired of the doom and gloom. I came to AS from United; I've been through this all before.
But where AS is doing better at that United is SERVICE. While it's been a little rocky with the merger, it's not NEARLY the nightmare that I endured for ~5 years during CO/UA, a merger which, frankly, still isn't done, produced 80,000 .....y employees, saw ~10% more seats crammed into existing fuselages, killed countless dogs, and beat up some weird doctor.
I am in no way required to fly UA. I plan on sampling some DL this year to go with WN- flights are booked. (I regularly fly WN courtesy of their partners- tens of thousands of WN points obtained from renting cars over the years, plus the occasional paid flight too.)

At the risk of triggering a sarcasm detector, I might as well sample (at the low cost of some miles DL showered on me at nearly no cost plus $5.60) the original pioneer of this technique of Basic Economy plus devaluing FFPs to go "you are only worth the fare you paid me today". This airline happens to be hubbed in my home city, and at least THEY aren't trading major network carrier partners for third-rate European LCCs or ripping out their IFE. Oh, and their IRROPS handling apparently doesn't fall apart like wet toilet paper when SEA gets some snow or ATC holds.

I'll likely end up a free agent with some bias to WN, mostly looking at price/schedule/convenience out of SEA, "loyalty" and elite status be damned, pay for what I need, since WN won't work everywhere. AS may win some of those contests, but they will almost certainly lose some business of mine that they get now.

I don't pretend that my business is going to make a bean counter go "naaah, we don't need that hundred million". But I would be a chump to think a business is going to look out for me better than I will, regardless of how much "loyalty" is used in marketing materials.

It may work out well for AS in the end. Certainly it has for DL. But I don't expect that I will be Stockholm Syndrome to an airline that clearly is going towards a direction I'd rather not go towards.
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Last edited by eponymous_coward; Apr 23, 2018 at 8:14 pm
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Old Apr 23, 2018, 8:16 pm
  #50  
 
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Until / unless a revenue component is added to MVPG, it will still be one of the easiest, highest value elite status of all domestic carriers.

Did not see any mention of the low fare guarantee (crediting back the difference if a fare drops after booking), which has been good to me.
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Old Apr 23, 2018, 8:35 pm
  #51  
 
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Welcome to Blah Airlines

Has the irony hit anyone else that on the eve of full AS/VX integration, AS is taking a giant step closer to being the Blah Airlines that VX poked fun at previously? Im critical of these moves only because I love AS, and worry that they are imitating their competitors rather than differentiating. Maybe there are no good or creative ideas left in this business, but I tend to think that there are.
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Old Apr 23, 2018, 9:08 pm
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by diver858
Did not see any mention of the low fare guarantee (crediting back the difference if a fare drops after booking), which has been good to me.
This is the part I'm curious about. I'm going to guess that maybe it won't apply to BE fares, but maybe regular ones? I think losing that and the 60 day policy combined with the limited destinations from SFO will make it tough to stay loyal to Alaska. I'll wait and see for now.
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Old Apr 23, 2018, 9:12 pm
  #53  
 
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Originally Posted by CurbedEnthusiasm
Big disappointment but not a shock. Having no change fee > 60 days from travel was a huge selling point for me. I noticed they also increased the paid upgrade fees a few weeks ago (that wasn't a huge loss since paid upgrades have gotten scarcer since the F cabins lost a row). It's a race to the bottom to join everyone else I guess.
Interesting. Didn't notice that. A little lower in some cases, a bit higher for others, all with the silly ending in 9 price.
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Old Apr 23, 2018, 9:32 pm
  #54  
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Originally Posted by diver858
Did not see any mention of the low fare guarantee (crediting back the difference if a fare drops after booking), which has been good to me.
Even if they eliminated it, it shouldn't matter if you're Gold or 75K. You can cancel and rebook with no fee.
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Old Apr 23, 2018, 9:35 pm
  #55  
 
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Originally Posted by MJMLBBtoCPH
Is part of the failure behind a lack of new start-up airlines due to the draconian regulatory environment of the federal government, or is there some other explanation? Maybe/hopefully Onejet will come to my city soon?
Actually you would make a more convincing argument that the lack of new airlines is due to insufficient government regulation.

In addition to the obvious access to lots of capital, any new startup airline would have to first consider barriers to entry, and first on that list would be entrenched competition - competition that has virtual strangleholds on major and not-so-major airports in terms of gates and routes, competition that has consolidated market power over the past decades thanks to the federal government allowing merger after merger.

Ignoring the critical component of safety, for the moment, if the federal government suddenly lifted all regulation of the airline industry, you'd very quickly end up in a world with one or two airlines in the US, massive price collusion, and zero effective competition.
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Old Apr 23, 2018, 9:43 pm
  #56  
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Originally Posted by channa
Even if they eliminated it, it shouldn't matter if you're Gold or 75K. You can cancel and rebook with no fee.
I don’t think there’s any guarantee this will be true for AS Basic Economy. We used to be able to use GGUs on any fare. Now G,T and R are excluded, so AS is willing to chip, chip chip Gold benefits based on fare cost. I think it is a sucker bet that R fares/Basic Economy will be “no waivers, no favors, fly it as booked or lose the fare”. I guess you can cancel and rebook INTO it that way... and lose upgrades, changes, quite possibly more, but it might be a "roach motel" kind of fare.

Last edited by eponymous_coward; Apr 23, 2018 at 9:50 pm
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Old Apr 23, 2018, 9:45 pm
  #57  
 
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Originally Posted by diver858
Until / unless a revenue component is added to MVPG, it will still be one of the easiest, highest value elite status of all domestic carriers.

Did not see any mention of the low fare guarantee (crediting back the difference if a fare drops after booking), which has been good to me.
Easiest, yes, for the time being. Highest value, no, that is what's being eroded drip by drip...
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Old Apr 23, 2018, 9:54 pm
  #58  
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward


I dont think theres any guarantee this will be true for AS Basic Economy.
I don't think anyone should be expecting these perks on BE.
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Old Apr 23, 2018, 9:59 pm
  #59  
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Originally Posted by channa
I don't think anyone should be expecting these perks on BE.
Right, but if the fare drops... odds are good the lowest fare was R already, and odds are excellent the lowest fare available on a GARR or a cancel/rebook IS R.

"Hey, you can totally take $5 off that fare using GARR. Kiss your upgrades goodbye. Kiss SDC goodbye. No Premium class. No exit row. No drink in coach. Reduced earnings. Enjoy your low fare guarantee. We have technically offered you one just like Southwest does, since Southwest doesn't actually punish you for saving $5 on a fare drop, and we do, and the fact we made it very unattractive for you to use it doesn't mean we got rid of it."

Imagine if a hotel said "well, you can use our lowest rate guarantee, but we will rebook you into the room with a view of the air conditioning vents, and it's next to the elevator and ice machine. Oh, plus it's half the size of the other rooms. You can't be upgraded out of it or get complimentary breakfast as an elite benefit either". Not much of a guarantee if you ask me. To be honest, you might as well get rid of the GARR because you're going to have to do a big "HEY DUMMY, YOU BOOK THIS FARE IT'S GONNA SUCK" alert any time anyone uses a GARR and it books into an R fare. That isn't going to help with customer satisfaction, is it?

Note that DL/AA/UA don't offer guaranteed lowest fares...

Last edited by eponymous_coward; Apr 23, 2018 at 10:14 pm
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Old Apr 23, 2018, 11:46 pm
  #60  
 
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Originally Posted by Legend717
People who weren't paying for seat assignments in the tail aren't suddenly going to start paying now. If they were, Premium Class would already actually be selling something, rather than going out full of elites for free.
On that note, another change announced in the earnings call today: dynamic pricing for premium class seats.

There are a ton of ways they can choose to implement this with different results, but I suspect they might want to try to sell PC seats for less than they're charging today, on routes where most of PC is full of elites on free PC upgrades. Rather make some money on the PC seats than no money, right?
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