djp98374

Is AS planning an ANC to MIA flight?

I really don’t see a difference in my sleep using lie flat vs tradition for a 4 hr flight.

Xrayman

preference and added value are slightly different.

Given the choice for the exact same cost , of course I prefer the option of being able to use a lie flat or cubicle. Now if the cost goes up $400 each way for a 5-6 hour flight then not added value for my personal need and equation.

i used to fly red eyes and always paid for FC so as to maximize potential to feel better upon arrival for function. Have learned in life that I am way better off paying for a hotel room and time prep even though the cost of the hotel or resort for an extra day may be more costly than first class red eye.

again lie flat and the cubicles have a role and serve a need. Just not for my domestic business travels.

jerry a. laska

Some other lie-flat discussions:
Why Doesn't AS Have Lie-Flat Seats on Transcons?
[Rant] AS First Class Is a Bad Joke
AS F service dropping to new lows
First Class Service to New York/EWR?

OhDoctor

thanks, though most of those are a year or two old. but if it comes up often enough, maybe they'll reconsider at some point.

the entire philosophy of emphasizing loyalty and upgrades into these subpar seats reminds me of that old joke about the two guys at a restaurant complaining about the awful food, and such small portions. "yes, our F is from the 20th century, but look how often we'll let you sit there!"

Repooc17

Or 6+ hours, sometimes close to 7 for westbound flights

ashill

Yeah, but that's not the question. The question is whether the cost for AS to create a subfleet (and therefore severely restrict their ability to route aircraft as, say, JFK-SEA-SFO-SEA-ANC-SEA-JFK or whatever) and have fewer seats to sell outweighed by the revenue premium they could get by jumping into the premium transcon market, which already has four other major players? It's obviously possible that the answer is yes (B6, with a vaguely similar network in that it's focused on one cost, although not to the extent that AS's network is, has decided it is), but the fact that "everyone" prefers AS F to Mint only has a limited bearing on whether it makes sense for AS to add the cost and complexity. AS management in general has stayed pretty good at remaining focused on their market.

I note that the OP who claimed they only consider AS "when flying to actual Alaska" is NYC-based. That's the only class of customer who would possibly have such a limited range of markets in which they'd consider AS; for pretty much any flyer, the vast majority of AS customers don't have lie-flat options on most of their routes, no matter the airline they choose. And NYC-based flyers aren't an important enough market for AS to design their fleet around. In fact, it's precisely because NYC is purely an outstation for AS that all or most of AS's NYC routes have lie-flat competition.

ashill

No, it's simply that AS has decided that lie flat transcons are not a market they want to compete in. They have obviously ceded the lie-flat F/J market to AA, DL, UA, and B6. They've also ceded the SEA-Japan market to other airlines, and they've ceded the Texas-east coast market to other airlines.

Might they decide to enter that market at some point in the future? Sure; your crystal ball is as good as mine. But I don't think their decision not to compete in the market has anything to do with the straw man presented here, that they think people willing to pay for lie-flat F/J will choose AS. They're only competing for the market that isn't willing to pay for lie-flat F/J. And anyone can of course earn Mileage Plan miles (elite qualifying) by flying AA J or F (or at least will be able to when AA resumes that service -- the fact that AA would rather keep their dedicated subfleet parked than fly them right now says a lot about the possibility of AS refitting part of their fleet with flat beds in the near term!).

eponymous_coward

The market for premium F on SFO-ANC (or most of AS's network) probably isn't the same as the market on SFO-JFK.

Thank you for being the 55745757865th person who wants to re-litigate the VX merger and AS's decision to not use VX's model for F on FlyerTalk. Your door prize is in the mail.

"But how will Southwest survive not offering first class seating and assigned seats?!??!?!"

(repeat question for 50 years)

Repooc17

Lie flat seats aside, AS hasn't even been trying to sustain its transcon markets prior to Covid. The issue has gotten worse during Covid.

Flying for Fun

Let's please compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges. Which airlines offers transcon lie-flat F on all routes at all times? Saying a recliner seat is subpar to a lie-flat is meaningless, especially when that "subpar" product is Superior to the recliner F on that same airline that offers lie-flats. It didn't economically make sense for AS to consider a sub-fleet of aircraft to compete in the trancon market. What makes you think a post-Covid era with a multi-year recovery, an alliance membership in oneworld and closer partnership ties with AA is going to change that?

James

chrisl137

For a certain population who fly an even narrower range of transcon routes than I do, all of them

If people would just replace transcon with "NYC-SFO" it would be easier than having to repeatedly explain that there are many transcon routes served by the US3 with recliner aircraft on some or all flights.

B6 has a model that works for B6. AS has a model that works for AS (and for me). When I first started flying AS it was for the pacific coast routes, but they served LAX-BOS and LAX-WAS well enough that I managed to move most of my transcon travel off of UA and onto AS, and much prefer it.

jsguyrus

Good God, this again? This has already been endlessly hashed out. When AA/DL/UA starts routinely flying lie flat transcons (and I am not talking about LAX/SFO-NYC) then we could have this discussion.

RAD_PDX

How often do AA, DL, UA or B6 elites get free upgrades into lie-flats? Do you need to be a top tier elite to have a chance?

eponymous_coward

Oooh, hey! This is a classic thread indeed.

So what we know since 2018:

- AS likes A321s. A320s and A319s not so much. Oh and they're leasing MAX planes.
- That rumor didn't seem to pan out, and...
- 2020 Global Pandemic is crushing business travel hard enough that AA is sitting most of their A321T fleet.

be_rettSEA

Having deja vu!