Upcoming AS Route Cuts
Feb 20, 2018, 10:06 am
#31
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
If you have not paid attention the growth from Portland has significantly been cut. Portland has borne the impact of the Horizon problems. Those 'new' flights we had to Kansas City, St. Louis, Omaha, and so forth been pulled from the schedule due to Horizon's issues. Some reappeared for Feb travel, but then were pulled until later. Our Oakland and Sacramento schedule is on/off again. So it's hit or miss. You can hit the Boston, New York, LAX or the San Diego flights, those are consistent. The rest, not so.
Yes, the network has changed, but PDX still has more non-stop destinations on AS than on any other airline, by a large margin.
Feb 20, 2018, 4:03 pm
#33
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Northern California
Programs: Alaska 75K Aeroplan 25K HHonors Gold Marriott lifetime Plat IHG Plat Hertz Pres Club
Posts: 186
Feb 20, 2018, 4:05 pm
#34
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,844
Feb 20, 2018, 6:36 pm
#35
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Programs: Hilton Platinum, Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,363
Alaska and Horizon have grown consistently in PDX over past few years, with 12% more passengers in 2017 compared to 2014. The growth under the Alaska brand is probably more since Skywest saw 20%+ growth in 2017.
Yes, the network has changed, but PDX still has more non-stop destinations on AS than on any other airline, by a large margin.
Yes, the network has changed, but PDX still has more non-stop destinations on AS than on any other airline, by a large margin.
Feb 20, 2018, 8:10 pm
#36
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Programs: Hilton Platinum, Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,363
Yep, maybe the best course of action is to pull back on SFO, concentrate on north/south traffic, and push some of the the VI airplanes to San Jose where there is less direct competition and AS was already decently well established.
Feb 20, 2018, 9:08 pm
#37
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,637
They probably shouldn't have spent $4 billion on VX if that's the plan. They could have built up the existing network organically, and backfilled the QX hole with E175s instead of using them on routes like SFO-MSP, SFO-ABQ, SFO-MCI, etc. Too late now.
Feb 20, 2018, 9:27 pm
#38
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,378
Doing a complete fold and turning VX planes into beer cans would be a career ending event for a lot of AS execs. Shareholders don’t like it when you burn a few billion of shareholder value for nothing. And it’s not like Delta was going to stay partners with AS under any circumstances once they decided a SEA hub was their goal, so I think the “flexibility” you tout was a chimera, a circumstance that wasn’t going to last.
Feb 20, 2018, 10:07 pm
#39
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Programs: Alaska Gold 100k
Posts: 958
The PDX-ORD redeye is basically the spring break and holiday overflow flight. It's not regular and really not much of an option. Alaska may be flying 5 RTS from SEA-ORD, but that's not helping me one bit. Alaska can choose to bail on PDX-ORD, its fine with me. When we received mileage plan credit on AA it was no big deal. Now its a big deal.
You're right Alaska can't be everything to everyone. But other than Seattle residents it is morphing into nothing for no one.
You're right Alaska can't be everything to everyone. But other than Seattle residents it is morphing into nothing for no one.
Feb 20, 2018, 10:19 pm
#40
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,844
Doing a complete fold and turning VX planes into beer cans would be a career ending event for a lot of AS execs. Shareholders don’t like it when you burn a few billion of shareholder value for nothing. And it’s not like Delta was going to stay partners with AS under any circumstances once they decided a SEA hub was their goal, so I think the “flexibility” you tout was a chimera, a circumstance that wasn’t going to last.
The VX investors really come out looking like geniuses for off loading the debt and getting twice the market cap as before the bid--while adding no additional market cap to ALK.
Feb 20, 2018, 10:53 pm
#41
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SEA
Programs: Hilton/Marriott Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 2,036
Feb 21, 2018, 5:43 am
#42
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Programs: Hilton Platinum, Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,363
Webtraveller you are dead on right. For us in PDX taking away DL and domestic AA now I can't go to the places I need to go, so need to consider switching carriers in order to maintain status, or split up my flights and be nobody on multiple carriers. Still trying to figure out what to do. Maybe a B6 AS merger is in the works as has been speculated on here.
I think this is all a mess. Before this started I could easily fly anywhere in the country or world and get Alaska credit on Alaska or a partner, primarily for me, AA. It worked well.
Feb 21, 2018, 7:58 am
#43
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,485
I would hate to see a merger bw AS and B6. Horrible for consumers. But I think AS and B6 would benefit from a greater partnership with code share and earning/redeeming miles. Outside of transcon, they don't compete much and both are dealing with Delta incursion. I don't see any of the big 4 would partner with either AS and B6 at this point. And maybe they are already having conversation about that.
AS would do great if they can move into JFK T5 (and get better gates at BOS) and I'm sure B6 would also prefer moving to T2 at SFO in the future if AA moves out. Just some examples of how this could work out.
AS would do great if they can move into JFK T5 (and get better gates at BOS) and I'm sure B6 would also prefer moving to T2 at SFO in the future if AA moves out. Just some examples of how this could work out.
Feb 21, 2018, 8:12 am
#44
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,123
So far, it does seem that AS management did not do their homework on this deal and acted out of fear rather than rationality. Many airlines have been bought and basically disappeared after the acquiring airline found greater value in just eliminating a competitor completely rather than making the new route network work. In this case, AS seems to be doing the opposite. They are dragging down their own profitable/successful business while helping their competitors in the process. I think the hole they are in is only getting deeper and I would love to know what the plan is to either make the former VX network profitable at the same levels as AS was or how they plan to shift all the extra capacity currently used on marginally profitable/loss making ventures into something else that would be more successful. VX was just barely making money at much lower wage levels. It is really difficult to see how AS is going to make this work...but I guess we have to be patient and see if they have a magic plan nobody knows about just yet to turn things around.
The VX investors really come out looking like geniuses for off loading the debt and getting twice the market cap as before the bid--while adding no additional market cap to ALK.
The VX investors really come out looking like geniuses for off loading the debt and getting twice the market cap as before the bid--while adding no additional market cap to ALK.
Of course no one here is party to the thinking of upper management, aside from their public statements. So it's all just speculation.
Feb 21, 2018, 8:34 am
#45
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pacific Wonderland
Programs: ʙᴏɴᴠo̱ʏ Au, IHG Au, HH Dia, Nexus, Pilot FlyingJ Preferred
Posts: 5,336
So far neither AA nor AS have publicly stated the exact reasons for that partnership's drawdown. It could be that AA didn't want to pay mileage as they switched to a revenue based scheme, along with continuing to give elite benefits to customers who sidestepped AA's spend requirements by switching programs. That isn't VX dependent either.