Upcoming AS Route Cuts

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Old Mar 29, 18, 6:04 pm
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Originally Posted by WebTraveler View Post
What I am still trying to figure out is WHERE all these Airbus planes are going with the cuts to SFO, they need to be going somewhere in the system, but where?
Last time AS publicly talked about it, on shorter haul north-south routes freeing up 737 to move to the longer haul routes, along with more E175 & less Q400 in the QX/OO fleets.

Of course that could well change as AS develops experience as they have with destinations, but the general idea seems to have been increase seat capacity per plane (and perhaps reduce frequency) on longer haul destinations where pax are less concerned with specific departure/arrival times while reducing capacity per plane (and maybe increasing frequency) on shorter routes where arrival/departure times are important. In the short term, a greater than normal Airbii will be out of revenue service for seat changes & repaint.
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Old Mar 29, 18, 8:39 pm
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Originally Posted by WebTraveler View Post
What I am still trying to figure out is WHERE all these Airbus planes are going with the cuts to SFO, they need to be going somewhere in the system, but where?
What I'm still trying to figure out is what the cuts to SFO are that are freeing up a bunch of Airbus airplanes? SFO-FLL, SFO-CUN, SFO-DEN and SFO-ORD (down to one flight). They've added SFO-BNA, SFO-IND, SFO-PHL, SFO-RDU, SFO-MSY, SFO-KOA, SFO-BWI, SFO-MCO - and added additional frequency to SFO-AUS, SFO-PSP, SFO-PVR, SFO-SJD on Airbus. four Airbus markets cut from SFO. Eight new markets from SFO added on Airbus. Additional Airbus frequencies from SFO to AUS, PSP, PVR and SJD. The narrative on this page is that AS is turning SFO into another spoke from SEA but the evidence shows the complete opposite.
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Old Mar 29, 18, 9:35 pm
  #333  
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looking at Monday 11 Jun: LAX-SEA has 7 Airbus trips out of 15, LAX-PDX has 3 of 7, and (surprise!) AS6 to DCA isn’t a 738
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Old Mar 30, 18, 9:21 am
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Originally Posted by AS Flyer View Post
What I'm still trying to figure out is what the cuts to SFO are that are freeing up a bunch of Airbus airplanes? SFO-FLL, SFO-CUN, SFO-DEN and SFO-ORD (down to one flight). They've added SFO-BNA, SFO-IND, SFO-PHL, SFO-RDU, SFO-MSY, SFO-KOA, SFO-BWI, SFO-MCO - and added additional frequency to SFO-AUS, SFO-PSP, SFO-PVR, SFO-SJD on Airbus. four Airbus markets cut from SFO. Eight new markets from SFO added on Airbus. Additional Airbus frequencies from SFO to AUS, PSP, PVR and SJD. The narrative on this page is that AS is turning SFO into another spoke from SEA but the evidence shows the complete opposite.
All those routes were added (and flown) before the cuts. The additional SFO-PVR frequency isn't daily, neither is SFO-SJD.

I'm only seeing one SFO-AUS pair in the summer. The additional AUS flight doesn't hit until the fall, well after these flights disappear. SFO-PSP is 2x daily in the fall, same as it is today.

Last edited by tusphotog; Mar 30, 18 at 9:27 am
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Old Mar 30, 18, 9:25 pm
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Originally Posted by tusphotog View Post
All those routes were added (and flown) before the cuts. The additional SFO-PVR frequency isn't daily, neither is SFO-SJD.

I'm only seeing one SFO-AUS pair in the summer. The additional AUS flight doesn't hit until the fall, well after these flights disappear. SFO-PSP is 2x daily in the fall, same as it is today.
The point is that, since AS bought VX, there are more flights to more cities from SFO than ever before on either airline. The implication from others here is that AS is chopping SFO to, essentially, just another spoke - it's not true. They've added many new options. SFO-PVR/SJD is still additional, whether daily or not. SFO-AUS is twice daily all spring/summer long as well. SFO-PSP 2x daily, which is what AS offered previously so, you're right, not an add.
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Old Mar 30, 18, 10:42 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
looking at Monday 11 Jun: LAX-SEA has 7 Airbus trips out of 15, LAX-PDX has 3 of 7, and (surprise!) AS6 to DCA isnít a 738
the loss of 4 to 8 F seats sort of blows
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Old Mar 30, 18, 11:13 pm
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Originally Posted by lalala View Post
the loss of 4 to 8 F seats sort of blows
other than an occasional tail swap, I donít think AS has run a 739 into DCA

that said, you may find this even uglier ... IAD runs with an Airbus later in the summer, and the return gets promoted from a civilized 0930 to 0700 (which I think is directly opposite DLís recently announced add)
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Old Mar 31, 18, 12:48 am
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Originally Posted by AS Flyer View Post
The point is that, since AS bought VX, there are more flights to more cities from SFO than ever before on either airline. The implication from others here is that AS is chopping SFO to, essentially, just another spoke - it's not true. They've added many new options. SFO-PVR/SJD is still additional, whether daily or not. SFO-AUS is twice daily all spring/summer long as well. SFO-PSP 2x daily, which is what AS offered previously so, you're right, not an add.
Fair enough. But all the new options on the Airbus are flown with the full schedule (DEN, ORD etc). Once those aircraft are freed up, itís unknown where they go. Unless theyíre trying to build slack in the fleet.

Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post

other than an occasional tail swap, I donít think AS has run a 739 into DCA
SEA-DCA originally was flown with 737-900s back in 2001. My memory is hazy, but I believe they were required to fly the -900s because they didnít have 757s, which is what TWA was using at the time. The first 737-800 didnít show up on property until 2006.

When DCA reopened after 9/11, they flew the route with a 73G. I donít believe the 900ER can get out of DCA without the possibility of payload restrictions.
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Old Mar 31, 18, 3:58 am
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Originally Posted by AS Flyer View Post
The point is that, since AS bought VX, there are more flights to more cities from SFO than ever before on either airline. The implication from others here is that AS is chopping SFO to, essentially, just another spoke - it's not true. They've added many new options. SFO-PVR/SJD is still additional, whether daily or not. SFO-AUS is twice daily all spring/summer long as well. SFO-PSP 2x daily, which is what AS offered previously so, you're right, not an add.
Obviously they have been flying these routes with airbus already. So there is enough planes for these routes. And now that these routes are dropped, the planes will be used somewhere else or have lower utilization. He is simply wondering where the aircraft is going. Perfectly reasonable question. A reasonable answer would be N-S routes or some of the other transcend that had been legacy AS. But you are bringing up that legacy VX flew fewer routes out of SFO, which is not related. Legacy VX could've had a lower utilization model or had fewer planes.
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Old Mar 31, 18, 11:23 am
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Originally Posted by tusphotog View Post
... SEA-DCA originally was flown with 737-900s back in 2001. My memory is hazy, but I believe they were required to fly the -900s because they didnít have 757s, which is what TWA was using at the time.
hmmmmmmm ... at the end (Dec 2001),TW was operating one DCA<ó>LAX RT with a 757
Originally Posted by tusphotog View Post
The first 737-800 didnít show up on property until 2006.
When DCA reopened after 9/11, they flew the route with a 73G. I donít believe the 900ER can get out of DCA without the possibility of payload restrictions.
I had several DCA<ó>SEA/LAX trips on 73Gs in the 2002-2006 timeframe, as well as IAD-SEA on a -900 in 2003; I was a Pentagon/Arlington commuter during that time and really donít recall the bigger jet at National on a regular basis

iirc AS originally had two SEA<ó>IAD turns along with a single (early afternoon departure / morning return) DCA trip; they moved the same-day trip to DCA ~2005, and axed the redeye a year or so later

ok, back to the regularly scheduled thread
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Old Mar 31, 18, 8:57 pm
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Originally Posted by ucdtim17 View Post
SFO-DEN killed, as expected. Also PDX-STL.
The day after PDX-STL is cut, SAN retimes about an hour earlier, killing the ability to connect from PDX (or from outlying airports) via SAN on the same day.

The good news is I no longer have to leave EUG at 5am. Bad news is the cheap flight arrives at 11:57pm in STL.
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Old Mar 31, 18, 10:40 pm
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Originally Posted by tphuang View Post
Obviously they have been flying these routes with airbus already. So there is enough planes for these routes. And now that these routes are dropped, the planes will be used somewhere else or have lower utilization. He is simply wondering where the aircraft is going. Perfectly reasonable question. A reasonable answer would be N-S routes or some of the other transcend that had been legacy AS. But you are bringing up that legacy VX flew fewer routes out of SFO, which is not related. Legacy VX could've had a lower utilization model or had fewer planes.
I don't think this is solely as a result of the cancellation of SFO-CUN/FLL/DEN. I think it involves a combination of reducing ORD/BOS and tightening up the schedule as well. That said, the following will be operated as Airbus flights this summer, and were previously Boeing (with the exception of SEA-SFO/LAX and PDX-LAX where there was a minimal Airbus presence already):

city pair # flts
SEA-IAD 1
SEA-PDX 2
SEA-SJC 1
SEA-SAN 2
SEA-LAS 2
SEA-DEN 3
SEA-SFO 10
SEA-LAX 7
PDX-LAX 3
PDX-SFO 4
LAX-DCA 1

At the same time, Boeing will begin flying SEA-RDM, SFO-KOA and LAX-OGG

Last edited by AS Flyer; Apr 1, 18 at 2:52 pm
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Old Apr 2, 18, 10:21 am
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Originally Posted by tusphotog View Post


Fair enough. But all the new options on the Airbus are flown with the full schedule (DEN, ORD etc). Once those aircraft are freed up, itís unknown where they go. Unless theyíre trying to build slack in the fleet.

SEA-DCA originally was flown with 737-900s back in 2001. My memory is hazy, but I believe they were required to fly the -900s because they didnít have 757s, which is what TWA was using at the time. The first 737-800 didnít show up on property until 2006.

When DCA reopened after 9/11, they flew the route with a 73G. I donít believe the 900ER can get out of DCA without the possibility of payload restrictions.
It wasn't a "requirement" per se, but when AS applied for the beyond-perimeter SEADCA route, the initial application was for 73G service. The DOT advised AS they'd wanted to see more capacity offered, and so the application was amended to the then-new 739. It was subsequently awarded to AS, and flown for precisely 7 days until the attacks on 9/11/01. Once DCA was reopened to commercial traffic, the flight resumed with a 73G, reflecting lower demand at that time.
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Old Apr 2, 18, 12:15 pm
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Originally Posted by AS Flyer View Post
At the same time, Boeing will begin flying SEA-RDM, SFO-KOA and LAX-OGG
Boeing?
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Old Apr 3, 18, 10:27 am
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USA Today article: "Alaska Airlines ending several California routes"
https://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...tes/480677002/
Alaska Airlines is ending service on several California routes as it looks to both cut underperforming routes and harmonize its schedule with merger partner Virgin America.
Four routes are from San Francisco, where non-stops to Denver, Fort Lauderdale, Minneapolis/St. Paul and Mexico City will end by mid-June. Another San Francisco route — to Cancun — ended this month.
Two routes from Southern California — Los Angeles-Orlando and San Diego-Mexico City — will be discontinued by summer.

Last edited by Mehdron; Apr 3, 18 at 10:36 am
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