Disgruntled AS Employees: "It's a race to the bottom."
Jan 12, 2018, 12:20 pm
#76
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 87
Jan 12, 2018, 12:37 pm
#77
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,387
Guess we are going to disagreed here. AS Management (in this internal memo) is pitching building lounge in JFK as their great effort in improving their product, but that doesn't benefit y passengers or change the fact the product in the air is not competitive. And they are not lowering pricing to reflect the lack of competitiveness in their product.
The bottom line is AS doesn't want to make a play for premium transcon California-JFK. OK. They're either right or wrong on that. As far as everything that is NOT California-JFK premium transcon, it's perfectly competitive. Last I checked, AS isn't densifying their Y to 30" like UA/AA or adding a Basic Economy product, and I've had plenty of non-transcon F on other airlines where the food is "meh" in 38" pitch recliners (just flew AA F on SEA-LAX where a miscater happened and everyone got BOB Y boxes).
Last edited by eponymous_coward; Jan 12, 2018 at 12:50 pm
Jan 12, 2018, 12:49 pm
#78
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: YYZ, HKG, MFM
Programs: AC35K, AS MVP, WS Gold, ITA EP, Marriott Plat, Hyatt-Explorist, IHG Diamond
Posts: 2,019
AS will need to budget cut somewhere in order to compensate this, especially after buying VX. However, AS FFP is no longer as competitive as it use to be, and for int'l travelers it does not have many perks. Four partners leaving within one year also devalue the program.
Jan 12, 2018, 2:45 pm
#80
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Seattle
Programs: AS MVP Gold
Posts: 1,093
except many of the complaints that we've heard here seems to be just terrible execution of move to T7. We really don't know what options they had, but my guess is T1 is certainly available. They might not have had the space to build their own lounge, but do they really think having their own lounge is going to allow them to price at the same level as flat-bed competition? If they are actually going for the non-premium crowd to fill up F, they need to price accordingly (think sub $500) . There simply is no need to build their own lounge for that.
I'm looking at some prices in may, they are around $600 for SEA, $700 for LAS and in many cases $900 to well over $1000 for SFO/LAX. These are not good prices for what they are offering.
I'm looking at some prices in may, they are around $600 for SEA, $700 for LAS and in many cases $900 to well over $1000 for SFO/LAX. These are not good prices for what they are offering.
Tomorrow I'll make a mileage run SEA-BOS-SEA and I've been looking at availability for the past few days. On each of my flights there had been four First Class seats available starting six days ago and they were priced at $1,069. (I was checking only on Alaska Airlines' website.) I thought that seemed steep given the product but I really don't know what the market will bear. I could presume that those seats were sold as my SEA-BOS flight is now sold out in F and the return has only one seat showing available for $1,069. Or perhaps MVPG 75Ks or other MVPG members who purchased more expensive fares than I did have been upgraded. I'll never know. Again, I'm happy enough with the arrangement I have but thought it interesting to read "...in many cases $900 to well over $1000 for SFO/LAX. These are not good prices for what they are offering" and then to see First Class fares >$1,000 on my flights.
As for a "race to the bottom"? I can't say I've noticed it overall. My experiences flying AS have been very good. Let's see what tomorrow brings.
Jan 12, 2018, 2:56 pm
#81
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
except many of the complaints that we've heard here seems to be just terrible execution of move to T7. We really don't know what options they had, but my guess is T1 is certainly available. They might not have had the space to build their own lounge, but do they really think having their own lounge is going to allow them to price at the same level as flat-bed competition? If they are actually going for the non-premium crowd to fill up F, they need to price accordingly (think sub $500) . There simply is no need to build their own lounge for that.
I'm looking at some prices in may, they are around $600 for SEA, $700 for LAS and in many cases $900 to well over $1000 for SFO/LAX. These are not good prices for what they are offering.
I'm looking at some prices in may, they are around $600 for SEA, $700 for LAS and in many cases $900 to well over $1000 for SFO/LAX. These are not good prices for what they are offering.
Jan 12, 2018, 3:26 pm
#82
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: DL DM, Marriott Titanium, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 150
AA doesn't move out of T2 until 2020. Once that happens, AS will be converting that to a Board Room. Since it's still a little farther down the road, it explains why they may not be announcing it right at this moment.
Jan 12, 2018, 3:33 pm
#83
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: BLI
Programs: Alaska MVPG
Posts: 206
Guess we are going to disagreed here. AS Management (in this internal memo) is pitching building lounge in JFK as their great effort in improving their product, but that doesn't benefit y passengers or change the fact the product in the air is not competitive. And they are not lowering pricing to reflect the lack of competitiveness in their product.
Jan 13, 2018, 12:46 am
#84
Join Date: May 2006
Location: TUS/PDX
Programs: WN CP/A-List, AS MVPG75K
Posts: 5,798
By the way, did anyone catch the AS blog post saying the "new flagship [N] lounge will open next year?" They don't specify when, but that's the first time I've actually heard a general time frame mentioned.
Jan 13, 2018, 6:48 am
#85
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,485
I'm an MVPG member who does not fly for work. I've maintained MVPG status for three years running and I feel fortunate to have been able to do so. I usually buy the least expensive fares in a given market and, therefore, I have low expectations of upgrades. In fact, on transcon flights from/to SEA I have no expectations of an upgrade. I'm happy enough sitting in an exit row aisle seat.
Tomorrow I'll make a mileage run SEA-BOS-SEA and I've been looking at availability for the past few days. On each of my flights there had been four First Class seats available starting six days ago and they were priced at $1,069. (I was checking only on Alaska Airlines' website.) I thought that seemed steep given the product but I really don't know what the market will bear. I could presume that those seats were sold as my SEA-BOS flight is now sold out in F and the return has only one seat showing available for $1,069. Or perhaps MVPG 75Ks or other MVPG members who purchased more expensive fares than I did have been upgraded. I'll never know. Again, I'm happy enough with the arrangement I have but thought it interesting to read "...in many cases $900 to well over $1000 for SFO/LAX. These are not good prices for what they are offering" and then to see First Class fares >$1,000 on my flights.
Tomorrow I'll make a mileage run SEA-BOS-SEA and I've been looking at availability for the past few days. On each of my flights there had been four First Class seats available starting six days ago and they were priced at $1,069. (I was checking only on Alaska Airlines' website.) I thought that seemed steep given the product but I really don't know what the market will bear. I could presume that those seats were sold as my SEA-BOS flight is now sold out in F and the return has only one seat showing available for $1,069. Or perhaps MVPG 75Ks or other MVPG members who purchased more expensive fares than I did have been upgraded. I'll never know. Again, I'm happy enough with the arrangement I have but thought it interesting to read "...in many cases $900 to well over $1000 for SFO/LAX. These are not good prices for what they are offering" and then to see First Class fares >$1,000 on my flights.
I think that's a minority of people flying in y. I have and do use pp, but I know people with it that don't use it because they got it with credit card and never found the benefits of lounge.
Jan 13, 2018, 8:22 am
#86
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 339
Was just there two days ago, granted flying DL out of gate D8 but Alaska was 15 feet away and boarding at the same time. Nothing particularly “disgusting” about the gates, but 2 737s boarding at the same time and maybe 50 seats at the gate between them makes it very crowded to say the least. The D and E gates at PHL aren’t the nicest in the airport but they are a mile ahead of those at JFK and BOS
Jan 13, 2018, 1:14 pm
#87
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend, Moderator, Information Desk, Ambassador, Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FAI
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Plus PHL has the UC for BR members, right? And those with the AMEX Plat now can enjoy a nice walk to a new CL ^
Jan 13, 2018, 1:35 pm
#88
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SEA
Programs: AS MVP Gold 100K
Posts: 2,030
You know all this is not that hard to fix. First AS needs to have a sub-fleet of Hawaii and transcon aircraft that compete with Mint. Second, pull your head out and deal with the lack/quality of Lounges at key airports. Those two fixes would solve 80% of their current issues.
Jan 13, 2018, 3:20 pm
#89
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Programs: Hilton Platinum, Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,363
Alaska could redeem itself with me if it did two things: (1) restores the Horizon flights out of Portland to all the prior destinations at reasonable times, and (2) find a national partner....anyone...for those routes that Alaska has no intention of servicing.
Jan 13, 2018, 3:40 pm
#90
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Join Date: Jun 2001
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Posts: 28,190
You know all this is not that hard to fix. First AS needs to have a sub-fleet of Hawaii and transcon aircraft that compete with Mint. Second, pull your head out and deal with the lack/quality of Lounges at key airports. Those two fixes would solve 80% of their current issues.
First, the list of Hawaii/transcon routes that will support a lie-flat premium to earn target ROIC on the aircraft space taken up, from traditional AS/VX hubs - is probably going to be pretty short. SFO-JFK? Sure. LAX-BOS? Probably. PDX-PHL? No way.
Second, their idea of key airports for lounges that will pay for themselves, and your idea, may be very different. Delta (to use one example), typically has a lounge at a domestic airport if it operates more than 40 daily DL + DL Connection flights. There are a few airports that despite low flight counts due to perceived premium fare bookings, like DCA. What airports, plus JFK, see 40 AS flights a day? Is that the lounge network you were expecting?