SFO Lounge Downgrade

Old Dec 15, 17, 3:06 pm
  #61  
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
OK. That's a ways from everyone "circling in for the kill".
Meanwhile, the stock is up about 15% from the recent panic attack.
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Old Dec 15, 17, 3:26 pm
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
Air carrier lounge space is at a super-premium at crowded airports such as SFO.
Actually not really the case. What matters more is finding the right space at the right terminal.

Originally Posted by davistev View Post
And SFO is also a dark void for domestic flyers on Priority Pass. Not my favourite airport due to lack of lounge access.
SFO is simply not a friend of PP. But it has a handful number of lounges for access.

Originally Posted by jsguyrus View Post
To me that says they have nothing under construction nor have they even identified space to do so at SFO. Once they do find space we all know this is at least a two year project. Thing is this is their new HUB that they have been bragging about. They knew they were going to need a lounge a year ago when they bought VX!
The problem actually goes deeper:

1. VX never realizes the need of a lounge. So SFO T2 has not reserved a space for VX and VX used the VA lounge (sort of).

2. Unless SFO moves out some retail/restaurant tenants, the only available space in T2 is the yoga room, which is not enough for a lounge.

3. The only available space in SFO now is T1 Boarding B (currently rebuilding), the current home of WN and former home of AS (and its Boardroom). A new lounge could possibly mean AS/VX will move back to T1B and abandon the investment at T2.
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Old Dec 15, 17, 4:37 pm
  #63  
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
Funny thing; they didn't start out that way. UA owned SEA back in the 1980's.
Back in the 80's, AS didn't even serve the East Coast. When did they start transcons, early 2000s?

Heck, pre-merger VX had a better footprint from SFO than AS in the 80's. VX served some like 9 of the top 10 SFO markets at the time of merger.


Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
Anyways, remind me, what lounge did VX have in T2?
B6 also has no lounges. That's a different model than what AS is doing. AS has lounges at their hubs. Well except SFO now.
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Old Dec 15, 17, 5:08 pm
  #64  
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Originally Posted by garykung View Post
The problem actually goes deeper:

1. VX never realizes the need of a lounge. So SFO T2 has not reserved a space for VX and VX used the VA lounge (sort of).

2. Unless SFO moves out some retail/restaurant tenants, the only available space in T2 is the yoga room, which is not enough for a lounge.

3. The only available space in SFO now is T1 Boarding B (currently rebuilding), the current home of WN and former home of AS (and its Boardroom). A new lounge could possibly mean AS/VX will move back to T1B and abandon the investment at T2.
I believe that you are partially incorrect, although maybe I'm blowing smoke out of one orifice or another.
1) VX master plan was to take over the AA lounge once AA moved post-T1 construction.
2) Generally, space has been identified for buildout of an AS lounge as part of the new control tower area.
3) Currently-available airside space does not appear to exist. (Note that the bowels of what is now T2 had a number of dungeon-like international airline lounges.)
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Old Dec 15, 17, 5:14 pm
  #65  
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Originally Posted by garykung View Post
2. Unless SFO moves out some retail/restaurant tenants, the only available space in T2 is the yoga room, which is not enough for a lounge.
There is also the option of new construction, such as the rumored mezzanine above the TSA checkpoint.
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Old Dec 15, 17, 5:17 pm
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Originally Posted by Eastbay1K View Post
...Please, please AS, don't blow it. There are many many loaded millennials here who will swipe you left faster than their next potential partner if you disappoint them.
Well said.

Seems like a big misstep to not have a plan in place while fighting for the CA market. You'd think they'd be doing everything they can to make a splash vs missteps.

They can't always control things like weather but you can control fighting aggressively for rentable space.
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Old Dec 15, 17, 5:27 pm
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Originally Posted by Eastbay1K View Post
I believe that you are partially incorrect, although maybe I'm blowing smoke out of one orifice or another.
1) VX master plan was to take over the AA lounge once AA moved post-T1 construction.
Yeah, that's my (unknowledgeable) impression too. SFO's current estimate is that T1 will be done in 2022; is that when AA will move and, presumably, AS+VX would get all of T2? That seems too long for AS to wait to get lounge space at SFO (especially assuming construction doesn't go according to schedule), so I'd hope they can come up with something (a temporary but multi-year lounge like SEA N) in the meantime.

Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
Anyways, remind me, what lounge did VX have in T2?
​​​​​​​
While that's certainly true, VX had a lot of appeal (deserved or not; personally, I don't think so -- I found the dark mood lighting quite unpleasant on my one VX flight, for example) for their distinctive onboard product. Having a lounge available seems like something that could help say that AS really does bring things to the table that VX didn't have.
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Old Dec 15, 17, 5:28 pm
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Originally Posted by ashill View Post


They bought out VX because B6 gave them little choice. I don’t think it was long-planned.
I really think that is the case. A B6/VX merger would have been very hard to compete with, so they had to buy VX even though it made far less sense.
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Old Dec 15, 17, 5:49 pm
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Originally Posted by jsguyrus View Post
Starting January 1, Alaska Lounge members will no longer have access to the American Airlines Admirals Club® in San Francisco, Terminal 2. Due to our acquisition of Virgin America, usage has far exceeded expectations leading to overcrowding at peak times.

But there are still plenty of places to relax before takeoff.
  • Together with our global partners, you have access to over 90 airport lounges worldwide, and starting January 1, when traveling on Virgin America flights, you can visit any American Airlines Admirals Club® location (except at SFO) with your Alaska Lounge membership and same-day Alaska, Virgin America or American Airlines boarding pass.
  • You can still access the Cathay Lounge when traveling out of SFO’s International Terminal.
We’re working with the San Francisco Airport to identify a lounge space in Terminal 2, which will provide you an Alaska Lounge experience at SFO. More news to come on this exciting new lounge, and on further improvements to the portfolio.
Saw this one coming.

If I was an AS exec, I would freeze the expiration date of all Loft Members, until they have a SFO club open. Totally unacceptable if I was a SFO based member.

As for Delta Lounge option, no way. not happening. Why would DL come to the rescue only to have the same problem of AS/VX flyer inundating the amazing facility. DL is already not allowing its own SkyClub member if the member do not have a DL (or partner) flight beginning in 2019.

Jiburi

PS: VX had no lounge in SFO? Oh. Still, to remain competitive with AA, DL, UA, combined VX/AS still needs a SFO lounge ASAP.

Last edited by jiburi; Dec 19, 17 at 12:50 pm
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Old Dec 15, 17, 6:08 pm
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I'll echo the sentiment- VX focused much more on casual flyers who were willing to pay for a better economy cabin experience. Alaska seems to cater to more to frequent flyers who favor more personalized service (lounge access, easy upgrades) that comes with elite status. Destroying the differentiated product on VX while failing to offer the elite perks sounds like a bad plan, but I guess we'll see.

That said, I think T2 is still a nice place to spend time- it's clean, bright, spacious, and modern with a great yoga room and great concessions.
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Old Dec 15, 17, 6:35 pm
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Originally Posted by bkojote View Post
I'll echo the sentiment- VX focused much more on casual flyers who were willing to pay for a better economy cabin experience.
You really hink VX has a good quality economy experience?

What I see is gimmick lighting, annoying back of seat screens and seats with very little legroom.
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Old Dec 15, 17, 6:44 pm
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Originally Posted by Tankerman View Post


You really hink VX has a good quality economy experience?

What I see is gimmick lighting, annoying back of seat screens and seats with very little legroom.
Approximately 83% of the positive VX reviews I hear highlight the stupid mood lighting. They got a lot of mileage out of that tiny investment.
ashill and jinglish like this.
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Old Dec 15, 17, 9:27 pm
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Lounge access

For the time being Alaska flyers could join Admirals Club to get access to SFO and all other AA and AS clubs.
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Old Dec 15, 17, 9:28 pm
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[QUOTE=eponymous_coward;29178890]

Anyways, remind me, what lounge did VX have in T2?


You are correct - VX had no lounge. Conveniently, they also sold no memberships. Alaska, obviously is doing things differently. “Memberships without lounges” is apparently the new billboard for different things that work together...l
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Old Dec 15, 17, 11:52 pm
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Originally Posted by Tankerman View Post


You really hink VX has a good quality economy experience?

What I see is gimmick lighting, annoying back of seat screens and seats with very little legroom.
Oh hell yes. The seats are wider and have an inch on Alaska for legroom and way more padding. WiFi on every plane (not so much a point of differentiation in 2017 but 5 years ago it wasn’t uncommon to be on a midcon with no WiFi and no power) Seatback ordering was awesome, the entertainment selection was well curated (HBO- now gone that they’re using Alaska’s library, awesome music selection) , and buy on board food was top notch (it both tasted good and was plated nicely, something Alaska doesn’t even do in the forward cabin) with really good drinks too. Mood lighting was great. Even little details like having mini water bottles in the galley (though JetBlue bested this with their free fridge in the middle of their A321t’s) indicated an attention to detail you don’t get on Alaska.

You can call it style over substance but I find myself enjoying everything about the Virgin experience way more. Even the casual friendly attitude was a breath of fresh air. I don’t see a whole lot of Virgin flyers sticking with Alaska once the product is gone judging by the reactions so far.
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