channa

That's not necessarily true. As of a week ago, AS was after the same customer segment.

If this is the extent of their reaction, they've accepted this hand they've been dealt and will have to change their focus.


The problem is in the messaging. What you're saying is not inline with what AS has been saying. Even look at their AA announcement -- hey you can still use VX to get to many places.

I have a hard time believing they spent significant money for VX, and significant advertising dollars in the Bay Area positioning themselves as a viable network competitor (when you take into account the partner network), all to throw it away and focus on Cabo vacationers.

When you see a market like SFO, with UA having upgrade lists 50+ deep on a regular basis, or 1K's being 25 down on an upgrade list, there is no doubt in my mind that AS wants a piece of this now that they're here.

This was clearly AA's doing, and we'll see how they adapt over time.

Adelphos

I see a lot of people saying that Alaska should partner up with JetBlue... I don't see how that really works

1) JetBlue is weak in terms of covering small airport destinations outside of the East Coast

2) Alaska and JetBlue are major competitors on transcons

3) JetBlue doesn't provide the Midwest hub Alaska really needs

Alaska ultimately needs to expand organically

Eastbay1K

Almost all my AA (and previously an issue, DL travel) is discounted premium cabin travel. My domestic RT portion of an AA international itinerary to/from AA connection cities ranges from approximately 3000 to 5000+ miles RT.

wwongo

Well you only have to fly 40,000 on Alaska to be MVPG and that's only around 4 trips a year coast to coast. There are many people on the west coast who came from the east coast and maybe spouse didn't come from the same city or parents are divorced and now one lives in Florida and the other in New York and well everyone expects to see you and then the grandkids. Kid grows up and goes to college on the east coast and there is parents weekend and tickets to pay for kid at least 3 times a year. Meanwhile parents are getting older and you have to check on them more often. None of this is at all unusual among the people I know and we do log a bunch of miles this way.

People have a lot of reasons for wanting to move around the country that are neither business or exactly a vacation. Business travel has declined somewhat in recently years. It's sometimes cheaper to have a meeting remotely but you can't attend your cousin's wedding remotely and people are more spread out now, so personal travel has picked up a lot of that slack.

Airlines need people to have lots of reasons to move around or they would not be able to fill those planes every day in both directions.

BOSTravels

Looks to me AS wants to be the "JetBlue of the West Coast". It works for JetBlue at the East Coast, so why not for AS? Big difference is of course the big DL at SEA. Without AA feed to SEA and without PNW feed to AA, AS looks vulnerable.

channa

8 trips, not 4.


I don't think that's the case. JetBlue does not have nearly the same massive network of International partners, nor does B6 have reciprocal lounge access for its Elites using partner lounges. AS has been working on stuff like this with BA and QF recently, which is why it is clear to me that AS is clearly interested in strengthening its program to target road warrior type travelers. This AA change is a big setback to that goal.



The West Coast is much more sparsely populated, with the majority of mid-large population centers (500,000+) being in a handful of places. Frankly, if they go to SEA, PDX, SMF, SFO, LAX, SAN, LAS and PHX and maybe ABQ, the West Coast is covered.

The only West Coast market > 500,000 population (and barely) that's not served by B6 is FAT.

Here is a list of East Coast markets that are over 500,000 population that are no longer reasonable accessible on AS or VS or AS partners out of SFO.

MIA (ok, FLL is avail)
DTW
HOU
ATL
STL
TPA
CLE
PIT
CVG
ORF/VA beach
SAT
MKE
PVD
CMH
BUF
MEM
JAX
SDF
BDL
RIC
CLT
OKC
DAY
ELP
BHM
OMA
ABE
CAK
SRS
ALB
TUL

I define "reasonably get to" as not having to excessively backtrack (e.g., SFO-SEA-SAT adds some 750 miles and significant time compared to a more logical rotue like SFO-DFW-SAT).

Also, airport changes I don't consider reasonable (SFO-DAL-Uber/separate ticket-DFW-SAT) is even more ridiculous.

All it would take to fix a lot of this would be some AS metal flights to DFW/ORD/MIA that could connect to AA codeshares to bridge the gap. The SFO-ORD problem will remedy itself once VX goes to AS. But DFW/MIA are big holes that would alleviate a lot.

Forgive me if I've missed one or two here or there, but the point is the impact is staggering and much bigger of a hit for AS than it is for AA.

Adelphos

Why would AA maintain these codeshares post January 1?

BOSTravels

Exactly my point. Both AS and AA (less perhaps) get hit.
Delta is laughing now.

apodo77

You have zero factual evidence to back up the claim in your first sentence other than your own antecdotal experience.

WebTraveler

That's a bogus statement and you know it.

For my annual non-Alaska flights (normally 8-12 a year) I now need to find a new airline. FACT.

Alaska has one flight from PDX-ORD and PDX-DFW a day, so any potential connections via ORD and DFW to a purported connecting code share flights are going to be minimal. FACT.

I generally flew American when I could nor fly Alaska because of the mileage plan. Now if I fly American I need to maintain a separate FF account with them. Not sure I fly enough with AA to pledge my loyalty to them.

What will it be? It was about 85% Alaska or its partners. So if I have to maintain AA now as well and next time I fly to say LAX or ORD, might I look to AA rather than Alaska instead? So I will probably fly less on Alaska because I have to maintain relationships with all these other airlines now....

Why be a full fledge member of Mileage Plan? It won awards because of the partner airlines. Domestically those are pretty much gone.

Yes, the Virgin America purchase is a clusterf*ck for existing loyal Alaska customers in places like Portland. And yes, Alaska screwed us.

fly18725

It seems like Mileage Plan marketing has shifted to 'Global Partners' over the past year. Combined with every thing AS has said/done post-merger, it seems like the focus is on primarily domestic customers in home markets who taken occasional international trips.

AS' mission is to create an airline people love. They claim 70% of the purchase decision is based on network, schedule, and price. AS has always been the most relevant carrier in WA/OR/AK and is striving to expand that relevant to CA. If domestic markets you frequently travel to from PDX aren't served nonstop or via connections in SEA, there isn't sufficient O&D demand.

No, I think post-merger AS has been focused on a fairly focused customer segment that is not necessarily aligned with the network carriers. To claim otherwise is to say AS has been lying to its investors.

AS is seeking to be the most relevant airline to west coast customers. Today, AS say it is relevant to 69% of customers in WA/OR/AK and it wants to extend that level of relevance to customers in CA. Adding destinations to serve 34 of the top 60 domestic markets from SFO seems like a good start. Yes, there are holes and the lack of a domestic accrual partnership with AA hurts that. It certainly raises questions about how/why some of these changes were made.

Perhaps service from SFO-PHX/ATL/HOU/DTW/MIA will be forthcoming.

BOSTravels

Delta also flies West Coast. So why pick AS over DL?

apodo77

Just because it screwed you doesn't mean it screwed every other AS elite and passenger but by all means please speak on their behalf.

sullim4

My main issue with this is that it essentially forces me onto BA for any European travel out of SEA. Flying AA via ORD or JFK is now out. AF and KL are essentially worthless as partners given they depend on DL to transport from SEA to AMS or CDG.

I'll have to look more into IcelandAir but geez, flying a single-aisle 757 to Europe from the west coast is a PITA.

BOSTravels

I recently flew the new AF 777-200/300. Very nice, 1-2-1 seating in biz. Probably the best of the EU carriers.