AS and AA partnership changes 1 January 2018

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Old Jul 7, 17, 5:22 pm   -   Wikipost
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Wiki Link
Link to Official AS Blog Post

Major points from this thread and from missydarlin:

  • Effective Jan 1, 2018, domestic AA-marketed flights will not earn any Mileage Plan miles. AS-marketed, AA-operated codeshares will continue to earn AS miles at the AS earning rate (ie a minimum of one mile earned per mile flown). Domestic flights marketed by other partners (eg BA) and operated by AA will no longer earn AS miles. Post-Jan 1 flights booked prior to Jul 6, 2017 may be submitted for mileage credit.
  • International AA flights (including US-Canada and US-Mexico) will continue to earn AS miles. Domestic AA flights which connect to international flights will not earn miles. It will remain impossible to book international AA-operated flights through Alaska to get an AS codeshare or an AS-operated domestic feeder flight.
  • Reciprocal elite status benefits (waived checked bag fees, preferred/MCE seat assignments, priority boarding) between AA and AS go away Jan 1, 2018. Seat assignments made prior to Jan 1 for post-Jan 1 flights will remain.
  • The reciprocal lounge access arrangment between AA and AS will not change.
  • AA will remain a mileage redemption partner of AS with only relatively minor tweaks to the award chart (some increases, some decreases).

Link to share your feedback with Alaska Airlines:

https://www.alaskaair.com/feedback

Discussion in the American Airlines forum:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...an-2018-a.html
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Old Jul 18, 17, 8:05 pm
  #481  
 
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Been pulling up and looking at various Alaska-American codeshares via ORD and DFW come the new year. Very few codeshares on the 2nd leg, and with the single PDX-ORD it really is not workable unless it times just right, which is rare. Lots of long layovers.

So basically this remaining AA codeshare on the 2nd leg is just not fitted well.
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Old Jul 18, 17, 9:17 pm
  #482  
 
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Originally Posted by mrapollinax View Post
I'll keep banging the drum for a Sun Country partnership. Midwest hub operations, not part of a major airline alliance, new leadership that might want to expand partnerships with like-minded carrier. Adding SY would give me (selfishly) just enough frequency to both coasts and Texas to work for business travel. Again, this is completely for selfish reasons but it would probably be the only thing that would keep me flying with Alaska with the AA news.
Except SY's route network doesn't actually fill in the gaps in AS's network. The domestic destinations that SY serves that AS doesn't are SAV, RSW, GPT, and HRL (which I'd never even heard of!). That doesn't help AS's core market -- travel to/from the west coast to a comprehensive set of destinations -- one iota. If they bought SY and rejiggered the network, maybe, but then they're encroaching on a fortress hub rather than being a little guy flying to sun destinations, and I don't think doing two mergers at once is sensible. And a codeshare or frequent flyer partnership doesn't let AS suggest core changes to SY's network.

Last edited by ashill; Jul 18, 17 at 9:23 pm
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Old Jul 19, 17, 12:09 am
  #483  
 
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Originally Posted by ashill View Post
HRL (which I'd never even heard of!).
You've never flown to spring break at South Padre Island?
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Old Jul 19, 17, 7:58 am
  #484  
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Originally Posted by kevincrumbs View Post
Even in this zone, although I would argue that SEA/PDX are different than SFO, AS has lower relevance now that AA is not around. I cannot get to places in the Midwest & East Coast that I need to get to for business purposes (and no, charging the client double so that I can take an AS codeshare is not possible) and I cannot get to the Midwest to see my parents without paying more money for an AS codeshare and/or picking flights with worse times to stick with AS.

If all my travel was within the West Coast and some major cities, that would be fine but even with travel to some decently sized cities (PIT, IND, MIA, etc.), it's just not feasible to stick with AS. If I had to pick one, I'd rather keep AA and lose VX. I imagine that most people with my travel patterns feel the same way.
Good post. I agree with you across the board.
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Old Jul 19, 17, 9:36 am
  #485  
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Originally Posted by ashill View Post
Except SY's route network doesn't actually fill in the gaps in AS's network. The domestic destinations that SY serves that AS doesn't are SAV, RSW, GPT, and HRL (which I'd never even heard of!). That doesn't help AS's core market -- travel to/from the west coast to a comprehensive set of destinations -- one iota. If they bought SY and rejiggered the network, maybe, but then they're encroaching on a fortress hub rather than being a little guy flying to sun destinations, and I don't think doing two mergers at once is sensible. And a codeshare or frequent flyer partnership doesn't let AS suggest core changes to SY's network.
RSW happens to be the airport I needed DL/AA for!
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Old Jul 21, 17, 1:07 am
  #486  
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Got a reply back from AS:

Originally Posted by Alaska Airlines

Dear beckoa,

Thank you for sharing your concerns and your feedback regarding our recent partnership changes. We greatly appreciate it.

I have forwarded your concerns on to my management and our Loyalty and Marketing teams for review.

beckoa, we truly do appreciate you sharing your thoughts on our recent Mileage Plan changes. We value your patronage and look forward to welcoming you aboard another Alaska flight soon.

Sincerely,


<redacted>
Customer Care Representative
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Old Jul 21, 17, 9:37 am
  #487  
 
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL View Post
I think the real mistake was that AS didn't jump on oneworld membership the day the DL partnership fell apart. If AS was joining oneworld when the VX acquisition happened, there would've been too much inertia for the AS-AA relationship to fall apart.
They also could have potentially joined on with SkyTeam before DL added all the domestic feed to SEA.

I think the real problem is AS found themselves in a position where they maintained neutrality and weak partnerships for so long, that I think they missed the part where the industry moved away from that. They could have essentially picked DL/ST (who they already partner with KL, AF, KE, and AM)

And who knows if DL would have asked them to be a full ST member, or just drop the Codeshare with AA and or a couple others.

Jumping into OW could have also worked, but I think with DL going to add all the TPAC/TATL flights out of SeaTac I think there was more to be gained.

AS obviously chose a third way to buy VX and see how that goes. Honestly I don't think B6 would go for any type of merger/acquisition that they weren't the dominant partner. SY floats by because they're small and cater to mostly leisure customers...an AS acquisition of SY to try to establish MSP as a mid-con hub would be met with swift action from DL...who has far deeper pockets.
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Old Jul 21, 17, 9:56 am
  #488  
 
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Also to all the people who say SY is the solution, SY at MSP is out of Terminal 2, and I'm not sure there would be enough gate space there to accommodate AS's flights moving to T2 and it wouldn't be easy to get the space to accomidate SY's flights out of T1...and the two terminals are NOT connected behind security, you have to take the light rail between the two terminals.

Also there is a minuscule amount of food options and no lounge options in T2
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Old Jul 21, 17, 11:13 am
  #489  
 
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Not sure, how much responsibility lies on Mr. Charles Breer, Alaska's director of Airline Alliance, but knowing his past experience included similar position held at US Airways, Delta and Northwest Airlines, I begin to wonder how he wasn't able to anticipate deteriorating partnerships. American, for now, is still a partner, but recalling how Delta partnership started in a smiliar pattern, American might not be a partner soon unless Alaska acts soon.

I think, it's of best interest for Alaska to finally join an alliance, and likely One World, as voting members are likely going to approve Alaska. A vote from American might be the only sore spot, and Alaska will have to appease American.

Getting the same from Skyteam, or Star is unlikely as both United and Delta will vote against Alaska joining.

Joining an alliance might imply loss of several partners, but likely stabilize roster of partners, route planning, and financial performance.

Jiburi
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Old Jul 21, 17, 11:46 am
  #490  
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Originally Posted by jiburi View Post
Joining an alliance might imply loss of several partners, but likely stabilize roster of partners, route planning, and financial performance.
Seriously?

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ALK/...atistics?p=ALK
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DAL/...atistics?p=DAL
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AAL/...atistics?p=AAL

The financial performance is FINE right now... with DL expanding like gangbusters in their freakin' hub.

JBLU and LUV do fine without being in an alliance (in fact B6 lost a partnership with AA, just like AS did, and all they've done since is roll out Mint). The vast majority of ALK's revenue has not a thing to do with codesharing and partnerships. They'll be fine if that's what they choose if they get the basics (operations, destinations, value) right.

Last edited by eponymous_coward; Jul 21, 17 at 11:54 am
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Old Jul 21, 17, 12:08 pm
  #491  
 
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Originally Posted by jiburi View Post
A vote from American might be the only sore spot, and Alaska will have to appease American.
And how would AS do that? Stop competing with AA on overlapping routes? Stop expanding into AA's turf? Either one of those, or the hint of either, is waving a red flag at DOJ to take a look at both companies for collusion and antitrust violations. Unless something shakes up the existing alliances, or a fourth alliance forms, AS is out for now. Their chance has passed.
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Old Jul 21, 17, 1:22 pm
  #492  
 
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Originally Posted by jiburi View Post
Not sure, how much responsibility lies on Mr. Charles Breer, Alaska's director of Airline Alliance, but knowing his past experience included similar position held at US Airways, Delta and Northwest Airlines, I begin to wonder how he wasn't able to anticipate deteriorating partnerships. American, for now, is still a partner, but recalling how Delta partnership started in a smiliar pattern, American might not be a partner soon unless Alaska acts soon.
How do you know that he wasn't able to anticipate that?
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Old Jul 21, 17, 3:39 pm
  #493  
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Originally Posted by jiburi View Post
Not sure, how much responsibility lies on Mr. Charles Breer, Alaska's director of Airline Alliance, but knowing his past experience included similar position held at US Airways, Delta and Northwest Airlines, I begin to wonder how he wasn't able to anticipate deteriorating partnerships. American, for now, is still a partner, but recalling how Delta partnership started in a smiliar pattern, American might not be a partner soon unless Alaska acts soon.Jiburi
AS' partnership with AA is much deeper than its agreement was with DL. It goes back decades. The AA partnership was adjusted due to market changes. The DL agreement was terminated because of direct competition.

The executives at AS and AA are smart people. They know what they are doing.
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Old Jul 21, 17, 3:57 pm
  #494  
 
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Originally Posted by kop84 View Post
Also to all the people who say SY is the solution, SY at MSP is out of Terminal 2, and I'm not sure there would be enough gate space there to accommodate AS's flights moving to T2 and it wouldn't be easy to get the space to accomidate SY's flights out of T1...and the two terminals are NOT connected behind security, you have to take the light rail between the two terminals.

Also there is a minuscule amount of food options and no lounge options in T2
There are current planned expansions in place in which all Non-Skyteam members would eventually be moved into T2 with T1 being the DL/ST terminal.

https://www.mspairport.com/about-msp...t-improvements

They have already added 4 gates to the T2 and more options than before. If all goes to plan it will grow more prior to moving the non-ST airlines (AA, United, AS, Frontier, Spirit) from T1. This has been my supporting argument for a SY partnership/acquisition. SY has the large base of operations at MSP and MSP is growing and transitioning it's gate allocations over the next 10 years. If, and that is a big if, AS wanted to expand into the midwest I's not sure there is another airport the size of MSP that has all these boxes checked that would allow for that.

But again I'm rooting for this for purely selfish reasons.
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Old Jul 27, 17, 3:45 pm
  #495  
 
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After the Q2 Conference call yesterday, a data point that I came away with was that not one, not a single analyst had any question/concern about AS ending partnerships with DAL and significantly reducing the partnership with AA. I guess it is just us FT's and not the general flying public that find this a big deal. However, that may change in January when AS elite flyers get a surprise and are sitting in the back of the AA plane not earning any miles.
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