MellieAZ

DH and I were scheduled on flight# 581, PHX-SEA, on 6/29. The plane had mechanical problems and after 24 hours, it was finally cancelled. I’m not looking for advise on rerouting (we decided to cancel the trip for a full refund) or compensation (I’m satisfied with the compensation already provided by Alaska) but I don’t understand the business logic of their decision. I’ll try to briefly summarize what happened (this happened over 24 hours so please forgive me for the length):

1. Flight departed on time at 1:37pm on 6/29. Within 10 minutes the pilot reported that the “overheat indicator light” for the right engine had gone on, then off. Even though there were no other indications of problems, we returned to PHX.

2. Maintenance worked on the engine for a few hours. Approximately 5pm, we reboarded. The pilot announced that maintenance had replaced a wiring harness on the right engine. We took off and the problem repeated so we returned again.

3. The flight was cancelled. We were given several options but none of them involved getting to SEA that day. For reasons that made sense to us, DH and I decided to wait for Alaska to fix the plane – it was rescheduled for 9am the next morning, 6/30 under flight# 9344. In the interests of brevity, I won’t go thru all the options.

4. Approximately 9am the next day, the pilot gave us an update from the GA podium. He showed us the wiring harness that had been replaced after the first flight and the unit from the fire control system that had been replaced after the second flight. But there had been no test flight (apparently it requires a specialized crew/team) and he didn’t want a repeat of the previous day. He said the only alternate aircraft was a smaller plane which would mean leaving 20 passengers behind. He was trying to get permission to do a test flight himself.

5. At least 2 hours later he took the plane up and radioed back that everything went well. BUT when he returned the problem returned while shutting down the engines at the gate. The flight was cancelled and people lined up for rescheduling. Some of the folks were rescheduled for flights on Sunday – 2 days later! DH and I decided to skip the entire trip and called Alaska for a cancellation and refund.

6. Alaska provided compensation of $750 vouchers for future flights (and the meal and hotel vouchers) for each passenger. Capacity for our plane was approximately 180 passengers so I estimate they paid at least $140k for this.

7. BTW, flight # 9344 finally arrived in SEA around midnight on Friday, 30+ hours after the original schedule (according to Flight Aware).

So what I keep wondering is why they didn’t make a bigger effort to use the smaller plane so they could would only need to compensate 20 people versus 180? Surely that would have been cheaper!

I’ve been in similar situations with other airlines where communication was poor (GA’s making rapid-fire mumbled updates which left everyone asking “what was that”?) And no compensation unless we write to Customer Service again and again. We’ve even had to “remind” GA’s that we were entitled to meal vouchers.

Alaska sent us emails within 24 hours telling us how much compensation they were giving us. The GAs made sure everyone had meal vouchers and they took care to make clear and frequent communications. Everyone was sincerely apologetic. I’m not saying I wanted to fly in that plane before the problem was fully diagnosed and corrected. I appreciate the pilot’s concern for our safety. But couldn’t Alaska have done something more to accommodate 160 people? DH and I would have volunteered to be part of the 20 bumped from the flight and I bet there would have been others.

Is there anyone on this forum who can give insight into why this could happen?

Thanks for reading this lengthy post. While I may be ranting, a bit, I genuinely want to understand what happened.

jk88usa

This line in bold is likely the key. Finding 20 people willing to be bumped to the next day is going to be quite a struggle for any airline on any route. No doubt it would likely be cheaper than accommodating 180 people, but it just as easily could turn into a fiasco if fewer than 20 refuse to volunteer. They say any amount of money is enough to sway people, but that sum could be quite high at a number like 20 people (and in a sort of reverse irony, that I have seen once when a 739 was downguaged to a 738 on DL, it then becomes a fiasco of more than the needed amount of people fighting to get that prized sum of compensation...thanks FT folks )

AS also likely wasn't planning on a 30 hour delay here, they probably (incorrectly) assumed they would have it all straightened out by the morning. Airlines always seem to overestimate their ability to right the ship in bad situations, which admittedly sometimes seems intentional, but I digress.

As a side example: earlier this year I was on DL from BWI-SLC, which went MX because of a broken piece of the nav system. Pilot said he either had to make a pit stop for fuel in Kansas City or 40 people needed to get off, either way, basically everybody was going to miss their connections. So, DL went ahead and started rebooking people for the next morning and providing hotels but once they got more than 40 that they needed, the plane was good to leave (Which it did, 5 hours late, at some ludicrous hour of like 1am). By framing it this way, it seemed to me, instead of asking 40 people to volunteer, they were able to get more than the 40 they needed and so the plane went. Why AS didn't do something similar in your situation I can't say, but finding that many volunteers is tough on any airline.

VibeGuy

Bluntly, there's no *need* for volunteers once you've reached the point where it's cheaper to just IDB based on your published criteria. Take the ugly hit and move on.

That said, AS seems less likely than other carriers to add sections; this may be perception as it's very rare on other carriers as well, but AS seems particularly stingy with them, especially when they have so many RON a/c at various stations.

mikexner

IMHO, as a frequent traveler, Alaska has very very few challenges like this. They fly young planes. They run like 99% on time. They board early.

Since CE they don't have the amount of problems the other legacy airlines do, they aren't experienced in the best way to deal with things like this. They don't have to solve them often, so they don't have to get creative often, so their arsenal of ideas is a bit weak.

That all said, when they do have challenges, they are by far the most proactive, friendly, and fair in compensating travelers. They don't wait, they take care of people. That's why I fly Alaska!

3Cforme

DOT regulations on overbooking don't require any compensation for bumping when a carrier substitutes a smaller plane.

jackal

This. Absolutely this.

I've long said that AS sucks at IRROPS. Now, the reason for that is that they rarely have IRROPS, so as you said, they aren't practiced at dealing with them, and in the rare event they do happen, it kind of feels like amateur hour. The saving grace with AS is that they simply don't need to be super great at handling IRROPS, because they happen so rarely.

formeraa

Usually, the IRROPS plan for PHX works pretty well. They usually would make passengers wait until the 10:30pm-ish arrival from SEA. Then, they turn that aircraft for an 11:30pm departure, arriving SEA at 2:15am or so. Of course, those with connections would be stuck in the SEA airport or a short night in a hotel.

beckoa

Thanks for sharing.

Earlier in the year I had some IRROPS that gave everyone an extra day in a foreign country. It was a tire issue, and a delay of 24 hours. AS provided transportation, dinner, breakfast and lunch at the hotel they also bussed us to. And $400 each in vouchers.

The $750 is the largest compensation I've heard of. Those that were able to get out on earlier flights I imagine got less, if any. But speculation on my part.

About a dozen of us toured AS' operations two weeks ago in ANC. I heard yet again that some aircraft frames are prone to recurring issues, and have quite the maintenance logs.

sltlyamusd

Its funny, 10 or so years ago, I flew AS often enough that I would hear crews talk about certain "high maintenance" frames, mostly MD80s and 734s that are no longer in the fleet today.

sltlyamusd

Regarding turning around the RON aircraft to get people to Seattle the same day, it may have been smaller capacity, or AS was afraid they wouldn't be able to fix the plane overnight and then have a second delayed flight to deal with.

MellieAZ

On 6/29, the flight was cancelled approx. 7:30pm (after second takeoff and return). Alaska sent the notice rescheduling us on flt 9344 approx. 9:30pm. Perhaps IRROPS and MX are handled differently...

MellieAZ

It's actually 2 different vouchers, one for $500 (after first days issues) and a second for $250 after the second day. And the staff were very good about the meal vouchers. As locals we didn't need a hotel voucher, fortunately, because there was quite a line waiting at the desk when we left.

MellieAZ

I've had MX situations on other airlines but those were all resolved within a few hours, usually with a substitute airplane. Alaska's resources here in PHX are probably just couldn't handle this.

We feel very fortunate that we weren't inconvenienced too much. Many others had plans that were severely disrupted, like vacations. One couple were heading to Anchorage and the husband was in a wheelchair. They told us they chose to decline the hotel and spend the night at the airport because they had 4 large suitcases to schlep. If we had known, we would have helped but they didn't say anything Thursday night.

Thanks all for sharing your perspectives.