jk88usa

One of the most ridiculous things about the pilot situation is the fear mongering done by lobbyists and lobby groups towards the flying public. Can't tell you how many ads I've seen on my Facebook as of late telling me to "call my Congressman to keep our skies safe" or warning that "Congress is poised to let inexperienced pilots fly your plane."

So ludicrous, and it's all sponsored by the unions and those in the industry who profit off the shortage since they can demand more $$. It should be noted that none of the regulations put into effect following Colgan in 2009 would have prevented either of those 2 pilots from being behind the controls that night, as both met the new minimums set out when they crashed. (and the first officer was the only one who barely didn't meet the new 2009 minimums way back when she was hired). It's all lobbying and fear mongering done in Congress.

Unfortunately the general public has no idea...and even if Congress lowers the hours again I'm sure there will be another series of freak-out ads or statements. It's only going to get worse until airlines adopt a training plan (as suggested above), or some measure of cost-effectiveness in training is implemented.

LaneW

So, all of this background is fine, and I empathize with the pilots (and am amazed that they are so poorly paid!) - but I work for a living and need to be able to depend on a flight that I book actually happening. So why the hell do they keep selling seats on flights that may or may not actually occur???? I get that some were sold before this stupidity - but I am now afraid to buy an itinerary that includes QX since I have no confidence that the flight will actually fly.

I just changed an itinerary from a QX connection in SEA to one with AS all the way. I will have to get up at 2 AM and have a 5 hour layover in SEA as a result - JUST to avoid QX. How ridiculous is this getting ?????

WebTraveler

Look, there are issues, but purchasing Virgin America exacerbated the problem.

channa

Significant?

Say you raise a pilot's salary by $50K. They work what, 80 hours a month? So $52/working hour, 150 seats on the plane, 33 cents a pax per hour? Double it for the FO, 66 cents on a 1 hour flight, $3.30 on a 5-hour flight.

It's an increase, but not significant.

jsguyrus

If anyone wants to know the real costs of pilot training here it is, taken from Central Washington University's Aviation program:
Four year tuition ($8,500 x 4 and housing 4 x $10,000) $74,000
Additional lab fees for flying $60,000
Total school costs $134,000

Now add two years of being a flight instructor to get to the required 1,000 hours for a restricted ATP license at a pay of $35,000 a year.

All so you can get to a job that pays $36,000 a year for the first year at QX ( that is the "new" increased rate of pay to be "attractive").

https://www.cwu.edu/aviation/sites/c...es_2016-17.pdf
https://careers.cwu.edu/psc/careers/...ant&&siteid=1&

channa

Yet until recently it hasn't been much of an issue. The prospect of flying for one of the big boys over time and the benefits was enough to attract people.

The market will ultimately have to correct for this.

ryandc99

I appreciate the passion around this issue and the problems it is creating for AS customers.

I have just cleaned up some off topic personal posts. Please keep the discussion on the issues of the shortage.

Ryandc99, Moderator Alaska Airlines

jsguyrus

What changed was the increased number of hours required for an ATP license, thus it added the two years of flight instruction or whatever to get the required hours in. Instead of leaving college and going directly to a regional airline, they have to putter around for a couple years for next to nothing before even starting on their career. I would guess that that resulted in a lot of people simply not pursuing a career in flying.

rustykettel

Also at roughly the same time (6-8 years ago for a potential pilot now), there were furloughs and a general downturn in employment prospects that has since changed.

acarney

Do we still have the thread that specifically was created to talk about the personal issues this shortage was causing? Or did that get combined together in here? Just want to make sure I post my stuff in the correct place

ryandc99

To be clear, the posts I deleted were posters making personal attacks and snippy remarks. That will not be permitted.

Any other posts relevant to the discussion of the QX shortage is fair game.

Ryandc99, Moderator Alaska Airlines

JPat

yeah, I have discontinued all flights originating out of BLI. We just have to slog south to SEA and get on a mainline AS flight to go anywhere. I hope they load the PAI flights soon and that they are primarily mainline jets going to places I want to go to.

UAPremierExec

At least "back in the day" of the Horizon Metro IIIs and Dash 8-100/200s, pilots actually learned stick & rudder skills. Now its all automated. I fear for our children as there will be more accidents like the Asiana SFO "incident" whereby the pilots are so reliant on automation they don't know how to actually FLY the plane; they are merely monitoring a computer.

And back to "those days" of the Metroliner & Dash 8s - those pilots in the FO seat barely made $20k a year, and the captain not much more. This was before CAT 3 autoland and GPS approaches. I remember, as a kid, sitting in Eureka/Arcata for hours waiting for the fog to lift - both Horizon & WestAir were on the ground. And yes, those were young pilots, but they weren't stupid pilots. And they stick flew for the most part. Those guys are now the ones flying the big jets.

It was the "rite of passage" to make crappy pay while essentially "learning to fly" and was a privilege to get hired on at the likes of a major. Now everyone wants their damn trophy big shiny jet after 5,000 hours.

Sorry for the rant, but these unions are killing their own professions.

acarney

Ah! Ok, thanks!! I thought talking about the training and ideas how to improve that might have been "off topic" since they weren't reporting additional routes being cancelled and stuff. Thanks for the clarification!

jsguyrus

Oh come on.....First a Q400 is anything but "flying a computer", and yeah back in the day lots of things were different and I didn't have grey hair.. However, back in the day you could live on $20,000 a year. Try being a new co-pilot assigned to Seattle and making $36,000!!