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AS and VX Moved to T7 at JFK; New Alaska Lounge (April, 2018)

AS and VX Moved to T7 at JFK; New Alaska Lounge (April, 2018)

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Old Apr 30, 18, 9:15 am   -   Wikipost
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Present state(as of 4/30/18)
  • AS/VX flights consolidated from T8/T4 to T7 in late 2017
  • Terminal 7 under construction
    • No TSA Precheck
    • Limited restaurant choices
  • Lounges:
    • Purchased day pass option revoked for Virgin Atlantic Clubhouse in T4
    • Alaska Lounge in T7 opened on April 30 2018. Accepts Priority Pass (usual caveats apply, see Priority Pass Denied Entry thread). Will be open 5 AM-10 PM, except 5 AM-5 PM on Saturdays.
    • No day pass access to BA lounge
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Old Feb 6, 19, 2:12 pm
  #376  
 
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I wonder how long JL will stay in T1. T8 would seem to be a better fit with the consolidation of the largest OW partners there.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 2:15 pm
  #377  
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Originally Posted by rustykettel View Post
I wonder how long JL will stay in T1. T8 would seem to be a better fit with the consolidation of the largest OW partners there.
They will stay there forever since they are one of the co-manager of T1 and the new Terminal South. No reason to move and with the flight reduction from AA they can’t and don’t depend on connecting traffic
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Old Feb 6, 19, 2:53 pm
  #378  
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Originally Posted by bkojote View Post
There's a few ways I see this panning out:

1- Alaska moves in with JetBlue at T5/6/7
+ JetBlue is going to have the most gate space available with the new terminal, and it's clear other airlines are going to relocate there (Emirates, Icelandair, possibly Qatar.) Alaska will have access to its non-alliance partners.
- Alaska and JetBlue hate each other, and I'm pretty sure JetBlue would like to prioritize its partners rather than have a competitor who flies only the same routes squatting in its terminal, let alone opening a lounge there.

2- Alaska moves in to the new T1
+ No direct animosity with any of the airlines currently operating, and this terminal is going to be massively expanded.
- Alaska has almost no partners at this terminal aside from JAL and Korean Air. Additionally this terminal will be built primarily for international traffic with a lot of widebody gates.

3- Alaska moves in to T4
+ They'll have some space once Emirates, etc. leave for T5/6/7
- Delta already kicked them out of T4, and I'm sure with their flights relocating from T2 they'd rather use the gates for themselves.

4- Alaska squeezes in to T8
+ They'll have access to most of their partners as well as AA. No need to build a new Alaska lounge.
- If AA didn't have room for them in 2017 they sure won't have room for them now.
I'd say T1 because very, very few people are doing AS on a transcon->Partner TATL or (lol) TPAC except for the usual FT "I'm insane because I want extra time in the metal tube" crowd (maybe some award tickets might route you through JFK). I would bet the vast majority of AS partner feed is connecting to a partner at SEA/LAX/SFO... and if any, the connecting feed to JFK is probably going to be primarily to AA (so being in a different terminal isn't a huge deal since that's already the case) or BA (which is a mild loss compared to a T7 colocation, but whatevs, all things pass, and I also don't see AA being willing to share space- and BA probably has the MOST AS connectivity outside of JFK of any AS partner: SEA/LAX/SFO/SJC/SAN/AUS/ORD/BNA/EWR/IAD/YYC/YVR/DEN/DFW/ATL/CHS, so is it REALLY a big deal for them to be in different terminals at JFK? Probably not).

Since T1 is going to get some random international carriers (I guess) I don't see why they wouldn't get AS too.
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Last edited by eponymous_coward; Feb 6, 19 at 3:00 pm
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Old Feb 6, 19, 3:51 pm
  #379  
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I would say there is no chance for Terminal 1. If there is any space left in that terminal, the most logical one to move would be Swiss which is owned by LH. Terminasl 2/3 forget it as that will be Delta/partners. Terminals 5/6/7/8 forget it. B6 is not going to add 12 widebody capable gates to accommodate AS. Terminal 8 will be full with AA, BA and other partners. The only chance will be T4 with whatever leftover space there is if any.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 4:00 pm
  #380  
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Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
I would say there is no chance for Terminal 1.
If T1 is going to be "massively expanded" as a new T1/"Terminal South" (as posited above) there should be room, shouldn't there? It would make sense to dump a lot of the random airlines over in the "here's our non-hub airlines terminal" and give DL the space for T4 to do their thing.

Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
The only chance will be T4 with whatever leftover space there is if any.
Are you seriously suggesting JFK's PA is going to evict an airline currently serving them with multiple daily services to multiple US destinations as part of a project to improve the airport instead of actually figuring out where to put them in? Airports generally WANT airlines to serve them. If AS wants to keep serving JFK (spoiler: they will) the PA will figure out a way to make it work.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 8:42 pm
  #381  
 
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Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
I would say there is no chance for Terminal 1. If there is any space left in that terminal, the most logical one to move would be Swiss which is owned by LH. Terminasl 2/3 forget it as that will be Delta/partners. Terminals 5/6/7/8 forget it. B6 is not going to add 12 widebody capable gates to accommodate AS. Terminal 8 will be full with AA, BA and other partners. The only chance will be T4 with whatever leftover space there is if any.
The Port Authority is not going to approve redevelopment of a terminal if existing tenants - and slot holders - are not accommodated. Further, B6 is not going to be getting any more slots and won’t be able to use the additional gates in a redeveloped terminal themselves. Should they receive the contract to redevelop and operate the terminal, it will also be on a FOR PROFIT basis. As AS is now the fourth largest slot holder at JFK, I am pretty confident PANYNJ will insure they are accommodated in similar facilities, including a lounge should they so desire.

The wet dreams about B6 domination need to stop.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 11:30 pm
  #382  
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It has nothing to do with domination. B6 is pumping billions of dollars into new terminals. They are not going to pay all that money to hand it over to AS. They have plenty of expansion to do—especially as B6 moves into long haul flights to Europe. Neither will BA/AA; DL, or the Terminal 1 consortium spend money to accommodate a competitor. AS will end up with whatever happens to be left over after the main carriers that are forking out the money have their needs met. Thus T4 is the only possible option given all the other terminals will be owned by competitors.
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Old Feb 7, 19, 3:02 am
  #383  
 
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Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
It has nothing to do with domination. B6 is pumping billions of dollars into new terminals. They are not going to pay all that money to hand it over to AS. They have plenty of expansion to do—especially as B6 moves into long haul flights to Europe. Neither will BA/AA; DL, or the Terminal 1 consortium spend money to accommodate a competitor. AS will end up with whatever happens to be left over after the main carriers that are forking out the money have their needs met. Thus T4 is the only possible option given all the other terminals will be owned by competitors.
THERE ARE NO SLOTS FOR B6 TO EXPAND! This is a real estate play that will have the benefit of improving the customer experience and help with existing operations.
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Old Feb 7, 19, 7:16 am
  #384  
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Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
It has nothing to do with domination. B6 is pumping billions of dollars into new terminals. They are not going to pay all that money to hand it over to AS. They have plenty of expansion to do—especially as B6 moves into long haul flights to Europe. Neither will BA/AA; DL, or the Terminal 1 consortium spend money to accommodate a competitor. AS will end up with whatever happens to be left over after the main carriers that are forking out the money have their needs met. Thus T4 is the only possible option given all the other terminals will be owned by competitors.

T1 is owned by JL, LH, AF and KE. Since when is AS a competitor to those airlines? Did AS buy widebodies and start flying to Tokyo, Paris, Germany and Seoul, and you’re scooping FT?

Your logic is a bit curious: AS is apparently competing with a bunch of non US airlines who currently use and operate T1 but don’t fly out of JFK to US domestic destinations. But instead, they will be accommodated by Delta, who would probably be most interested in a T4 competitor flying JFK-SEA.
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Last edited by eponymous_coward; Feb 7, 19 at 7:24 am
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Old Feb 7, 19, 7:38 am
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Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
It has nothing to do with domination. B6 is pumping billions of dollars into new terminals. They are not going to pay all that money to hand it over to AS. They have plenty of expansion to do—especially as B6 moves into long haul flights to Europe. Neither will BA/AA; DL, or the Terminal 1 consortium spend money to accommodate a competitor. AS will end up with whatever happens to be left over after the main carriers that are forking out the money have their needs met. Thus T4 is the only possible option given all the other terminals will be owned by competitors.
I agree with your logic but the only terminal not owned by a direct competitor would be T1. T4 is heavily owned by Delta who will likely tighten their grip as Emirates and a few other small players move out and T2 is demolished. (And Delta already gave Alaska the boot from T4.)
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Old Feb 7, 19, 7:41 am
  #386  
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Originally Posted by bkojote View Post
I agree with your logic but the only terminal not owned by a direct competitor would be T1. T4 is heavily owned by Delta who will likely tighten their grip as Emirates and a few other small players move out and T2 is demolished. (And Delta already gave Alaska the boot from T4.)
T1 will have no space and is already overcrowded as it is. The non DL T4 half is where all the extra carriers that are left will go.
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Old Feb 7, 19, 7:44 am
  #387  
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Originally Posted by fly18725 View Post
THERE ARE NO SLOTS FOR B6 TO EXPAND! This is a real estate play that will have the benefit of improving the customer experience and help with existing operations.
JFK is not slot controlled for much of the day. The only time with slots is the evening bank when all the flights to Europe leave which is why AS is constrained as any flight from the West Coast in daylight hours would do a turn around right at peak time. B6 is also upgaging and has other partners. They will be expanding their capacity well into the future with larger planes and more flights on their own and partner planes as they move towards longer haul service.
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Old Feb 7, 19, 7:46 am
  #388  
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Originally Posted by bkojote View Post
I agree with your logic but the only terminal not owned by a direct competitor would be T1. T4 is heavily owned by Delta who will likely tighten their grip as Emirates and a few other small players move out and T2 is demolished. (And Delta already gave Alaska the boot from T4.)
Sounds right to me. I don’t see a bunch of international airlines (some of whom are AS partners anyway) minding if AS cuts them a check for gate/checkin space and a lounge for running some JFK domestic service that doesn’t really compete with long haul. JFK is never going to be a primary connecting hub for a West Coast airline anyway so being separated from AA/BA in the new South Terminal isn’t a huge deal.
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Old Feb 7, 19, 11:00 am
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Originally Posted by bkojote View Post
I agree with your logic but the only terminal not owned by a direct competitor would be T1. T4 is heavily owned by Delta who will likely tighten their grip as Emirates and a few other small players move out and T2 is demolished. (And Delta already gave Alaska the boot from T4.)
Delta is only a leaseholder in T4.

Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
JFK is not slot controlled for much of the day. The only time with slots is the evening bank when all the flights to Europe leave which is why AS is constrained as any flight from the West Coast in daylight hours would do a turn around right at peak time. B6 is also upgaging and has other partners. They will be expanding their capacity well into the future with larger planes and more flights on their own and partner planes as they move towards longer haul service.
JFK is a Level 3 airport and is slot controlled all day.
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