More Routes From SAN
#91
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: STL/ORD/MCI/SAN
Programs: AA CK MM, AC SE100K, UA 1K, DL Plat, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,985
#93
Join Date: May 2006
Location: STL
Programs: UA Platinum, AA Platinum Pro, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,427
I think these comments are spot on, particularly with regard to some of the STL-related AS nuances, including how they construct their ex-STL fares, which often doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and the overall attitude of STL locals, many of whom are perfectly happy taking one big vacation a year on WN. Hard to see how there would be any AS growth in STL in the near future, which is disappointing, because they've been a nice option for me with west coast flying, but also getting me back and forth to the Midwest when needed.
As for me, even when traveling with the family (2 adults, 4 kids), without the AS flight to SAN, I won't even consider WN as an option....regardless of its a nonstop. UA is priced about the same if not lower than WN, so the default has been the STLSFOSAN routing. Oddly enough, SFOSTL was operating as a redeye this summer on mainline. The only other time this happened was 2016 on an E175.
#95
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: AS, UA, WN, IHG Diamond Elite, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Gold, CET 7*
Posts: 3,284
#96
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pacific Wonderland
Programs: ʙᴏɴᴠo̱ʏ Au, IHG Au, HH Dia, Nexus, Pilot FlyingJ Preferred
Posts: 5,336
SAN-STL was running prior to eliminating PDX. It was pretty much retimed earlier into the PDX slot on the outbound after. I was looking at flying via SAN the week before PDX dropped, but the PDX fare was slightly cheaper and went with that. After the retiming, it was no longer possible to connect same day via SAN so went from three possible outbounds on AS from EUG to one.
#97
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: PDX
Programs: AS MVP Gold 100K
Posts: 2,329
SAN-STL was running prior to eliminating PDX. It was pretty much retimed earlier into the PDX slot on the outbound after. I was looking at flying via SAN the week before PDX dropped, but the PDX fare was slightly cheaper and went with that. After the retiming, it was no longer possible to connect same day via SAN so went from three possible outbounds on AS from EUG to one.
#98
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Programs: AS MVPG75k
Posts: 330
There were definitely a lot of factors at play here. And let me state for the record that I really liked this flight and was shifting my SAN trips predominantly over to AS
For one thing, there was absolutely no marketing (or if there was it was limited, and didnt see or hear anything) within the STL community for the flight; ask most of the general STL public and I doubt most would have known, or for that matter considered, using AS to get to SAN or for that matter other West Coast destinations. Unless you are exWest Coast, you wouldn't think to fly an airline called Alaska to anywhere but well Alaska; the Midwest is stuck with this idea that WN is the cheapest and its the best because not only do you get a free bag, but you get to pick your seat! *rollseyes*
AS has a token presence here in STL with up until this point only two options SEA or SAN; granted I wasn't expecting a full blown mini-hub, but without even a PDX nonstop (SAN was added around the time PDX was dropped I believed), we are left with two daily flights to SEA....which limits the number of places you can fly beyond SEA.
With no FF partnership with carriers flying east of the Mississippi (yes I realize they codeshare with AA but its not a full blown agreement with reciprocal earning/benefits/etc), why would someone in STL choose to fly AS over other carriers that had a much broader network and better connectivity?
Additionally, while the nonstop was priced in line with WN, AS pricing out of STL to the West Coast is not competitive. Unless you want to fly to SEA, connecting markets are usually 2-3x more expensive than WN or anyone else.....yes I realize they are focused on the local traffic, but even if I wanted to continue flying AS to get to SAN via SEA why would I pay $375/ow when I can just fly UA over SFO for about half the cost, and a shorter trip duration?
Was STLSAN printing money? I highly doubt it....but I'm convinced it could have hung on if they adopted a better strategy at least with respect to SAN as a whole. That being said for SAN in general AS either needs to go full blown and run it like a hub, or stop trying to go head-to-head with WN. There is no reason to think they cannot operate alongside WN, but then again they have an advantage in the ability to utilize Q400s or E175s to serve markets that WN cannot, but they also need to use a little common sense. Does SANRDM have longer term viability than SANSTL or SANMCI? I'm thinking not, but I suppose time will tell.
For one thing, there was absolutely no marketing (or if there was it was limited, and didnt see or hear anything) within the STL community for the flight; ask most of the general STL public and I doubt most would have known, or for that matter considered, using AS to get to SAN or for that matter other West Coast destinations. Unless you are exWest Coast, you wouldn't think to fly an airline called Alaska to anywhere but well Alaska; the Midwest is stuck with this idea that WN is the cheapest and its the best because not only do you get a free bag, but you get to pick your seat! *rollseyes*
AS has a token presence here in STL with up until this point only two options SEA or SAN; granted I wasn't expecting a full blown mini-hub, but without even a PDX nonstop (SAN was added around the time PDX was dropped I believed), we are left with two daily flights to SEA....which limits the number of places you can fly beyond SEA.
With no FF partnership with carriers flying east of the Mississippi (yes I realize they codeshare with AA but its not a full blown agreement with reciprocal earning/benefits/etc), why would someone in STL choose to fly AS over other carriers that had a much broader network and better connectivity?
Additionally, while the nonstop was priced in line with WN, AS pricing out of STL to the West Coast is not competitive. Unless you want to fly to SEA, connecting markets are usually 2-3x more expensive than WN or anyone else.....yes I realize they are focused on the local traffic, but even if I wanted to continue flying AS to get to SAN via SEA why would I pay $375/ow when I can just fly UA over SFO for about half the cost, and a shorter trip duration?
Was STLSAN printing money? I highly doubt it....but I'm convinced it could have hung on if they adopted a better strategy at least with respect to SAN as a whole. That being said for SAN in general AS either needs to go full blown and run it like a hub, or stop trying to go head-to-head with WN. There is no reason to think they cannot operate alongside WN, but then again they have an advantage in the ability to utilize Q400s or E175s to serve markets that WN cannot, but they also need to use a little common sense. Does SANRDM have longer term viability than SANSTL or SANMCI? I'm thinking not, but I suppose time will tell.
#99
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pacific Wonderland
Programs: ʙᴏɴᴠo̱ʏ Au, IHG Au, HH Dia, Nexus, Pilot FlyingJ Preferred
Posts: 5,336
A retired coworker and good friend always used to say it was 50/50 with a new manager- could be better than the current one, could be worse, and no way to tell in advance. AS in a new direction could decide to more closely follow the Big 3 and cut a lot of the nicer differences.
#100
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Programs: AS MVPG75k
Posts: 330
Already happening, or wishful thinking?
A retired coworker and good friend always used to say it was 50/50 with a new manager- could be better than the current one, could be worse, and no way to tell in advance. AS in a new direction could decide to more closely follow the Big 3 and cut a lot of the nicer differences.
Good point on the risk... certainly could go either way.
#102
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego, Ca
Programs: AA 2MM LT PLT; AS MVP Gold75k; HHonors Diamond; IHG PLT
Posts: 3,489
https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/l...234535072.html - this is welcome news, makes Paso Robles accessible from San Diego!
#103
Join Date: May 2006
Location: STL
Programs: UA Platinum, AA Platinum Pro, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,427
While 30 mins is a short window (for a lot of things to go wrong), a sub30 min connection time is somewhat standard for UA at DEN. Prior to the SANSTL nonstop, I was flying over PDX. On Friday, I flew PHXSEASTL, both legs were upgraded and had a chance to go to the new AS lounge in SEA which was really nice. Granted it did seem like a long day of flying, but I would say overall it was a fairly seamless trip and enjoyed flying on AS mainline, since SANSTL was operated by SkyWest (which meant a somewhat different inflight experience). I don't know if I've been lucky, or there aren't a lot of Gold 75K elites, but my upgrade percentage has hovered at about 100% which surprised me on routes such as SANOGG and PHXSEA. If somehow AS pricing was in line with everyone else on SANSTL, I'd stick with them and just deal with the connection over SEA. Maybe SANSTL will come back at some point though, but I won't hold my breath.
#104
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Usually in SAN or Central Europe.
Programs: AA:EXP/1MM. Accor/Radisson:Silver; HH:Gold; ICH:Plt Amb.
Posts: 22,307
Well, their expansion at SAN was good while it lasted. It looks like they are cutting a total of 7 routes from there: ABQ, DAL, MCI, STL, OMA, MSP, and ELP. But adding San Luis Obispo and Redmond/Bend (which really surprised me). So much for being California's airline of choice, or whatever that media campaign was called.