More Routes From SAN
Sep 1, 2019, 11:37 am
#76
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Programs: Hilton Platinum, Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,363
Yeah, PDX-STL got the axe awhile back too.....all these new routes didn't seem to work. I see the new schedule also dumped SAN-MCI, PDX-MCI, and SFO-MCI
Alaska is quickly re-becoming the Seattle only airline with a few extra routes out of PDX, LAX, SAN, and now SFO. Alaska needs to find a niche somewhere...being a Seattle based airline with a few other flights is no way to maintain in a competitive world. I recall when Virgin America was absorbed.....was thinking this was cool....but after all of that, what do we really have? A few routes out of SFO remain.
Alaska is quickly re-becoming the Seattle only airline with a few extra routes out of PDX, LAX, SAN, and now SFO. Alaska needs to find a niche somewhere...being a Seattle based airline with a few other flights is no way to maintain in a competitive world. I recall when Virgin America was absorbed.....was thinking this was cool....but after all of that, what do we really have? A few routes out of SFO remain.
Sep 1, 2019, 12:57 pm
#77
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SEA
Programs: Hilton/Marriott Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 2,036
Alaska is quickly re-becoming the Seattle only airline with a few extra routes out of PDX, LAX, SAN, and now SFO. Alaska needs to find a niche somewhere...being a Seattle based airline with a few other flights is no way to maintain in a competitive world. I recall when Virgin America was absorbed.....was thinking this was cool....but after all of that, what do we really have? A few routes out of SFO remain.
Sep 1, 2019, 3:21 pm
#78
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,953
ABQ, ANC, AUS, BIL, BOI, BOS, BZN, BUR, ORD, DAL, DFW, EUG, PAE, FAT, HNL, OGG, KOA, LAS, LAX, MFR, MSP, MSO, EWR, JFK, OAK, ONT, SNA, MCO, PSP, PHX, RDM, RNO, SMF, SLC, SAN, SFO, SJC, SBA, STS, YVR, DCA, BWI, FCA, LIH, OMA, PHL, PVR, SJD, and TUS are "a few extra routes" out of PDX? I truly don't understand your "PDX is the neglected stepchild hub" complex.
Sep 1, 2019, 3:34 pm
#79
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Programs: Hilton Platinum, Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,363
And the fact remains that very few routes added after the purchase/merger/absorption of Virgin America did not work out. Alaska needs a strategy going forward as to how to grow, or it could simply be a strategic decision to stay the same.
To that, even after the schedule changes, SFO will still have - JFK, EWR, DCA, IAD, BOS, MCO, ORD, DAL, PVR, SJD, SEA, PDX, LAX, SAN, LAS, AUS, MSY, SNA, BOI, GEG, ANC... maybe I'm missing one or two. SFO doesn't look any worse off than before AS took over VX. The routes that have been cancelled are largely routes that were added following the AS takeover and there are some routes that VX didn't have pre-takeover. AS isn't going to throw money into a fire the same way VX did - they'll try something and get out if it isn't working. This whole "Seattle only airline" is a fallacy.
Sep 1, 2019, 5:41 pm
#80
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,953
I think you mean that very few routes added after the purchase/merger/absorption DID work out - and yeah, there have been hits and misses. AS has tried some things that didn't work and continues to tweak things and add where it makes sense. No sense in running a money losing operation, right? You're assertion that AS has SEA, PDX and a "few extra routes" is wrong - unless a few means 21 nonstop cities from SFO (even after the most recent culling). 21 cities isn't a hub the size of UA's, but it's also not tiny. What other airline offers that many nonstop cities from SFO?
Sep 1, 2019, 5:54 pm
#81
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Programs: Hilton Platinum, Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,363
Yeah, I misspoke with the not. But you got the idea.
But how many SFO routes are not routes that Virgin America flew? Or that Alaska flew before?
All I know that remains post consolidation from SFO is Orange County. Maybe Palm Springs, but I swear Alaska had a routing before, that maybe was pulled. Virgin flew the other routes, did they not?
But how many SFO routes are not routes that Virgin America flew? Or that Alaska flew before?
All I know that remains post consolidation from SFO is Orange County. Maybe Palm Springs, but I swear Alaska had a routing before, that maybe was pulled. Virgin flew the other routes, did they not?
I think you mean that very few routes added after the purchase/merger/absorption DID work out - and yeah, there have been hits and misses. AS has tried some things that didn't work and continues to tweak things and add where it makes sense. No sense in running a money losing operation, right? You're assertion that AS has SEA, PDX and a "few extra routes" is wrong - unless a few means 21 nonstop cities from SFO (even after the most recent culling). 21 cities isn't a hub the size of UA's, but it's also not tiny. What other airline offers that many nonstop cities from SFO?
Sep 1, 2019, 6:59 pm
#82
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SEA
Programs: Hilton/Marriott Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 2,036
Yeah, I misspoke with the not. But you got the idea.
But how many SFO routes are not routes that Virgin America flew? Or that Alaska flew before?
All I know that remains post consolidation from SFO is Orange County. Maybe Palm Springs, but I swear Alaska had a routing before, that maybe was pulled. Virgin flew the other routes, did they not?
But how many SFO routes are not routes that Virgin America flew? Or that Alaska flew before?
All I know that remains post consolidation from SFO is Orange County. Maybe Palm Springs, but I swear Alaska had a routing before, that maybe was pulled. Virgin flew the other routes, did they not?
Sep 1, 2019, 7:37 pm
#83
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,953
Yeah, I misspoke with the not. But you got the idea.
But how many SFO routes are not routes that Virgin America flew? Or that Alaska flew before?
All I know that remains post consolidation from SFO is Orange County. Maybe Palm Springs, but I swear Alaska had a routing before, that maybe was pulled. Virgin flew the other routes, did they not?
But how many SFO routes are not routes that Virgin America flew? Or that Alaska flew before?
All I know that remains post consolidation from SFO is Orange County. Maybe Palm Springs, but I swear Alaska had a routing before, that maybe was pulled. Virgin flew the other routes, did they not?
Sep 2, 2019, 1:51 am
#84
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: los angeles, calif.
Programs: Alaska Airlines Gold MVP
Posts: 7,170
Checking this copy of VX's SFO network from right before the merger was announced, AS has dropped VX's DEN and CUN routes and made FLL seasonal. I know there have been some frequency reductions of the routes remaining, but AS has also added eight year-round and five seasonal destinations that neither airline was serving from SFO before.
Sep 2, 2019, 7:51 am
#85
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Programs: Hilton Platinum, Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,363
Sep 2, 2019, 8:02 am
#86
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Programs: Hilton Platinum, Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,363
What are the 8 and 5? 13? I am struggling to come up with that. SNA, MSY, BWI, Everett, ALB, Nashville (seasonal), RDU (seasonal), MCI (seasonal)
Yeah, the new three that were announced this week,. which have not started yet, and really are not new routes that sustained after Alaska took over.
I can;t come up with any more than this.
Yeah, the new three that were announced this week,. which have not started yet, and really are not new routes that sustained after Alaska took over.
I can;t come up with any more than this.
Checking this copy of VX's SFO network from right before the merger was announced, AS has dropped VX's DEN and CUN routes and made FLL seasonal. I know there have been some frequency reductions of the routes remaining, but AS has also added eight year-round and five seasonal destinations that neither airline was serving from SFO before.
Last edited by WebTraveler; Sep 2, 2019 at 10:42 am
Sep 3, 2019, 8:15 am
#87
Join Date: May 2006
Location: STL
Programs: UA Platinum, AA Platinum Pro, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,429
For one thing, there was absolutely no marketing (or if there was it was limited, and didnt see or hear anything) within the STL community for the flight; ask most of the general STL public and I doubt most would have known, or for that matter considered, using AS to get to SAN or for that matter other West Coast destinations. Unless you are exWest Coast, you wouldn't think to fly an airline called Alaska to anywhere but well Alaska; the Midwest is stuck with this idea that WN is the cheapest and its the best because not only do you get a free bag, but you get to pick your seat! *rollseyes*
AS has a token presence here in STL with up until this point only two options SEA or SAN; granted I wasn't expecting a full blown mini-hub, but without even a PDX nonstop (SAN was added around the time PDX was dropped I believed), we are left with two daily flights to SEA....which limits the number of places you can fly beyond SEA.
With no FF partnership with carriers flying east of the Mississippi (yes I realize they codeshare with AA but its not a full blown agreement with reciprocal earning/benefits/etc), why would someone in STL choose to fly AS over other carriers that had a much broader network and better connectivity?
Additionally, while the nonstop was priced in line with WN, AS pricing out of STL to the West Coast is not competitive. Unless you want to fly to SEA, connecting markets are usually 2-3x more expensive than WN or anyone else.....yes I realize they are focused on the local traffic, but even if I wanted to continue flying AS to get to SAN via SEA why would I pay $375/ow when I can just fly UA over SFO for about half the cost, and a shorter trip duration?
Was STLSAN printing money? I highly doubt it....but I'm convinced it could have hung on if they adopted a better strategy at least with respect to SAN as a whole. That being said for SAN in general AS either needs to go full blown and run it like a hub, or stop trying to go head-to-head with WN. There is no reason to think they cannot operate alongside WN, but then again they have an advantage in the ability to utilize Q400s or E175s to serve markets that WN cannot, but they also need to use a little common sense. Does SANRDM have longer term viability than SANSTL or SANMCI? I'm thinking not, but I suppose time will tell.
Sep 3, 2019, 9:14 am
#88
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: STL/ORD/MCI/SAN
Programs: AA CK MM, AC SE100K, UA 1K, DL Plat, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,986
The sub-$200 one way F fares were sort of shocking when I first saw them. But the fact that they actually upgauged the flight to a 737 on the schedule earlier this year, then downgauged it back to an E175, and now have just axed it entirely tells me that AS really has no streamlined gameplan. It seems to be very much on-the-fly decision-making in Seattle. I suspect that many passengers who fly these midcon routes see this as a big middle finger from AS.
Sep 3, 2019, 9:19 am
#89
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: PDX
Programs: AS MVP Gold 100K
Posts: 2,329
Sep 3, 2019, 9:20 am
#90
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: STL/ORD/MCI/SAN
Programs: AA CK MM, AC SE100K, UA 1K, DL Plat, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,986
There were definitely a lot of factors at play here. And let me state for the record that I really liked this flight and was shifting my SAN trips predominantly over to AS
For one thing, there was absolutely no marketing (or if there was it was limited, and didnt see or hear anything) within the STL community for the flight; ask most of the general STL public and I doubt most would have known, or for that matter considered, using AS to get to SAN or for that matter other West Coast destinations. Unless you are exWest Coast, you wouldn't think to fly an airline called Alaska to anywhere but well Alaska; the Midwest is stuck with this idea that WN is the cheapest and its the best because not only do you get a free bag, but you get to pick your seat! *rollseyes*
AS has a token presence here in STL with up until this point only two options SEA or SAN; granted I wasn't expecting a full blown mini-hub, but without even a PDX nonstop (SAN was added around the time PDX was dropped I believed), we are left with two daily flights to SEA....which limits the number of places you can fly beyond SEA.
With no FF partnership with carriers flying east of the Mississippi (yes I realize they codeshare with AA but its not a full blown agreement with reciprocal earning/benefits/etc), why would someone in STL choose to fly AS over other carriers that had a much broader network and better connectivity?
Additionally, while the nonstop was priced in line with WN, AS pricing out of STL to the West Coast is not competitive. Unless you want to fly to SEA, connecting markets are usually 2-3x more expensive than WN or anyone else.....yes I realize they are focused on the local traffic, but even if I wanted to continue flying AS to get to SAN via SEA why would I pay $375/ow when I can just fly UA over SFO for about half the cost, and a shorter trip duration?
Was STLSAN printing money? I highly doubt it....but I'm convinced it could have hung on if they adopted a better strategy at least with respect to SAN as a whole. That being said for SAN in general AS either needs to go full blown and run it like a hub, or stop trying to go head-to-head with WN. There is no reason to think they cannot operate alongside WN, but then again they have an advantage in the ability to utilize Q400s or E175s to serve markets that WN cannot, but they also need to use a little common sense. Does SANRDM have longer term viability than SANSTL or SANMCI? I'm thinking not, but I suppose time will tell.
For one thing, there was absolutely no marketing (or if there was it was limited, and didnt see or hear anything) within the STL community for the flight; ask most of the general STL public and I doubt most would have known, or for that matter considered, using AS to get to SAN or for that matter other West Coast destinations. Unless you are exWest Coast, you wouldn't think to fly an airline called Alaska to anywhere but well Alaska; the Midwest is stuck with this idea that WN is the cheapest and its the best because not only do you get a free bag, but you get to pick your seat! *rollseyes*
AS has a token presence here in STL with up until this point only two options SEA or SAN; granted I wasn't expecting a full blown mini-hub, but without even a PDX nonstop (SAN was added around the time PDX was dropped I believed), we are left with two daily flights to SEA....which limits the number of places you can fly beyond SEA.
With no FF partnership with carriers flying east of the Mississippi (yes I realize they codeshare with AA but its not a full blown agreement with reciprocal earning/benefits/etc), why would someone in STL choose to fly AS over other carriers that had a much broader network and better connectivity?
Additionally, while the nonstop was priced in line with WN, AS pricing out of STL to the West Coast is not competitive. Unless you want to fly to SEA, connecting markets are usually 2-3x more expensive than WN or anyone else.....yes I realize they are focused on the local traffic, but even if I wanted to continue flying AS to get to SAN via SEA why would I pay $375/ow when I can just fly UA over SFO for about half the cost, and a shorter trip duration?
Was STLSAN printing money? I highly doubt it....but I'm convinced it could have hung on if they adopted a better strategy at least with respect to SAN as a whole. That being said for SAN in general AS either needs to go full blown and run it like a hub, or stop trying to go head-to-head with WN. There is no reason to think they cannot operate alongside WN, but then again they have an advantage in the ability to utilize Q400s or E175s to serve markets that WN cannot, but they also need to use a little common sense. Does SANRDM have longer term viability than SANSTL or SANMCI? I'm thinking not, but I suppose time will tell.
