international departure tax on flight not flown
Jan 30, 2017, 7:57 pm
#1
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 103
international departure tax on flight not flown
SAN-SEA-YEG. terminated travel in seattle. I noticed on the fare, an $18 US int'l departure tax...if no international departure, where does the tax go? Per AS rep, taxes are only refundable if refundable fare. Doesn't seem right (and an accounting nightmare).
anyone had luck trying to recoup? Just curious.
anyone had luck trying to recoup? Just curious.
Jan 30, 2017, 9:01 pm
#4
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I don't think you have a leg to stand on here. If you'd have rebooked yourself to SEA as your final destination, you would have gotten the refund. Also if AS canceled SEA-YEG. But since you voluntarily abandoned the second segment of your ticket you essentially forfeit all value including the taxes. I don't know what happened to those taxes but one thing I do know is you're not seeing them again.
Jan 30, 2017, 9:08 pm
#5
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 103
more an exercise of thought than an expectation of reimbursement - genuinely curious where the international departure tax ends up when PAX does not fly internationally.
my assumption is the gov't imposed tax(es) do not depend on the fare type.
my assumption is the gov't imposed tax(es) do not depend on the fare type.
Jan 31, 2017, 5:59 am
#6
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AA (not AS, I know) has a page that outlines the corporate thinking on tax collection/refunds for flights not flown.
https://www.aa.com/pubcontent/en_US/...ce/Refunds.jsp
Upon request, taxes and fees not imposed by the airline may be refunded if the airline's obligation to remit the tax or fee depends upon use of the ticket for travel. Taxes and fees will not be refunded if the airline's obligation to remit the tax or fee arises from the collection of the tax or fee. All taxes and fees imposed by the United States government fall within this category and are not refundable.
https://www.aa.com/pubcontent/en_US/...ce/Refunds.jsp
Upon request, taxes and fees not imposed by the airline may be refunded if the airline's obligation to remit the tax or fee depends upon use of the ticket for travel. Taxes and fees will not be refunded if the airline's obligation to remit the tax or fee arises from the collection of the tax or fee. All taxes and fees imposed by the United States government fall within this category and are not refundable.
Jan 31, 2017, 10:06 am
#7
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The SAN-SEA walk-up ticket may have been more than you paid for SAN-SEA-YEG if you bought advance purchase. If you drop SEA-YEG, you may owe money. Might be best to let it go.
Jan 31, 2017, 10:44 am
#8
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 103
AA (not AS, I know) has a page that outlines the corporate thinking on tax collection/refunds for flights not flown.
https://www.aa.com/pubcontent/en_US/...ce/Refunds.jsp
Upon request, taxes and fees not imposed by the airline may be refunded if the airline's obligation to remit the tax or fee depends upon use of the ticket for travel. Taxes and fees will not be refunded if the airline's obligation to remit the tax or fee arises from the collection of the tax or fee. All taxes and fees imposed by the United States government fall within this category and are not refundable.
https://www.aa.com/pubcontent/en_US/...ce/Refunds.jsp
Upon request, taxes and fees not imposed by the airline may be refunded if the airline's obligation to remit the tax or fee depends upon use of the ticket for travel. Taxes and fees will not be refunded if the airline's obligation to remit the tax or fee arises from the collection of the tax or fee. All taxes and fees imposed by the United States government fall within this category and are not refundable.
another hypothetical scenario, LAX-YVR (I wish
), $200, o/w, miss flight, as a non-elite, you pay the $125 cancel fee to get back $75 - does AS pay the gov't taxes, specifically the international departure tax? again more of a fun thought exercise and im sure there is justification in the tax code.
Jan 31, 2017, 11:02 am
#9
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Doesn't even have to be a refundable ticket; most airlines (not AA) have a 24 h free cancel policy (as required by DOT).
Last edited by notquiteaff; Jan 31, 2017 at 11:37 am Reason: 24 -> 24 h
Jan 31, 2017, 11:36 am
#10
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 103
In a 1989 ruling, the IRS said that excise taxes could be refunded in the same proportion that a ticket price is refunded. As a result, there would be no tax refund with a non-refundable ticket.
"The fact that the transportation never takes place does not affect the taxability of the payment," Paul Kugler, then-associate chief counsel of IRS, explained in a 2001 letter responding to a congressional query.
"The tax that is collected but not refunded is to be paid over to the government," he said.
A group of passengers demanded in a 2004 federal lawsuit a refund of taxes on non-refundable tickets that go unused. But in February 2007, the First U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the dismissal of the case.
"We, too, conclude that the plaintiffs are fruitlessly endeavoring to fly in unfriendly skies," the court said.
The policy gets trickier, however, with other federal charges on airline tickets.
The Transportation Security Administration fee, which is $2.50 for each leg of a flight and capped at $5 each way, can be refunded if the passenger makes a request. The TSA on its website directs passengers to the airline to seek a refund.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money...ken/56342440/1
Feb 1, 2017, 4:04 am
#11
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Unless it was an involuntary change due to IRROPS or the like, trying to get a refund is probably a waste of time.
Feb 2, 2017, 9:28 am
#12
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https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/ado/drs/agents/refundable-taxes-quick-reference.html
The $18 US departure and/or arrival tax is not refundable in most cases, especially you flew one of the two legs of the ticket. You can refer to Air Canada's list on what is legally refundable for a transborder ticket.
The $18 US departure and/or arrival tax is not refundable in most cases, especially you flew one of the two legs of the ticket. You can refer to Air Canada's list on what is legally refundable for a transborder ticket.
Feb 2, 2017, 10:25 am
#13
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Seattle,WA
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If you were going to YVR why did you book to YEG?
An airline does not accept "because is was cheaper."
From AS Contract of Carriage:
Fares apply for travel only between the points for which they are published. Tickets may not be purchased and used at fare(s) from an initial departure point on the Ticket which is before the Passenger's actual point of origin of travel or to a more distant point(s) than the Passenger's actual destination being traveled, even when the purchase and use of such Tickets would produce a lower fare. This practice is known as “Hidden Cities Ticketing” or “Beyond Point Ticketing” and is prohibited by Alaska. Note: For this instance, co-terminals are considered to be the same point.
Where a Ticket is invalidated as the result of the Passenger’s non-compliance with any term or condition of sale or any fare rule (including prohibitions on Back to Back Ticketing, Throwaway Ticketing, Hidden Cities Ticketing or Beyond Point Ticketing), Alaska has the right in its sole discretion to take all actions permitted by law, including, but not limited to, the following: (a) cancel any remaining portion of the Passenger's itinerary, (b) confiscate unused flight coupons, (c) refuse to board the Passenger or carry the Passenger's Baggage, unless the difference between the fare paid and the fare for transportation used is collected prior to boarding, (d) refuse to refund an otherwise refundable Ticket, (e) assess the Passenger for the actual remaining value of the Ticket, which shall be no less than the difference between the fare actually paid and the lowest fare applicable to the Passenger's actual itinerary, (f) delete miles in the Passenger’s frequent flyer account (Mileage Plan), revoke the Passenger’s elite status, if any, in the Mileage Plan, terminate the Passenger’s participation in the Mileage Plan, or take any other action permitted by the Mileage Plan “Conditions of Membership”
An airline does not accept "because is was cheaper."
From AS Contract of Carriage:
Fares apply for travel only between the points for which they are published. Tickets may not be purchased and used at fare(s) from an initial departure point on the Ticket which is before the Passenger's actual point of origin of travel or to a more distant point(s) than the Passenger's actual destination being traveled, even when the purchase and use of such Tickets would produce a lower fare. This practice is known as “Hidden Cities Ticketing” or “Beyond Point Ticketing” and is prohibited by Alaska. Note: For this instance, co-terminals are considered to be the same point.
Where a Ticket is invalidated as the result of the Passenger’s non-compliance with any term or condition of sale or any fare rule (including prohibitions on Back to Back Ticketing, Throwaway Ticketing, Hidden Cities Ticketing or Beyond Point Ticketing), Alaska has the right in its sole discretion to take all actions permitted by law, including, but not limited to, the following: (a) cancel any remaining portion of the Passenger's itinerary, (b) confiscate unused flight coupons, (c) refuse to board the Passenger or carry the Passenger's Baggage, unless the difference between the fare paid and the fare for transportation used is collected prior to boarding, (d) refuse to refund an otherwise refundable Ticket, (e) assess the Passenger for the actual remaining value of the Ticket, which shall be no less than the difference between the fare actually paid and the lowest fare applicable to the Passenger's actual itinerary, (f) delete miles in the Passenger’s frequent flyer account (Mileage Plan), revoke the Passenger’s elite status, if any, in the Mileage Plan, terminate the Passenger’s participation in the Mileage Plan, or take any other action permitted by the Mileage Plan “Conditions of Membership”
Last edited by westcoastman; Feb 2, 2017 at 10:39 am
Feb 2, 2017, 11:59 am
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 103
If you were going to YVR why did you book to YEG?
An airline does not accept "because is was cheaper."
From AS Contract of Carriage:
Fares apply for travel only between the points for which they are published. Tickets may not be purchased and used at fare(s) from an initial departure point on the Ticket which is before the Passenger's actual point of origin of travel or to a more distant point(s) than the Passenger's actual destination being traveled, even when the purchase and use of such Tickets would produce a lower fare. This practice is known as “Hidden Cities Ticketing” or “Beyond Point Ticketing” and is prohibited by Alaska. Note: For this instance, co-terminals are considered to be the same point.
Where a Ticket is invalidated as the result of the Passenger’s non-compliance with any term or condition of sale or any fare rule (including prohibitions on Back to Back Ticketing, Throwaway Ticketing, Hidden Cities Ticketing or Beyond Point Ticketing), Alaska has the right in its sole discretion to take all actions permitted by law, including, but not limited to, the following: (a) cancel any remaining portion of the Passenger's itinerary, (b) confiscate unused flight coupons, (c) refuse to board the Passenger or carry the Passenger's Baggage, unless the difference between the fare paid and the fare for transportation used is collected prior to boarding, (d) refuse to refund an otherwise refundable Ticket, (e) assess the Passenger for the actual remaining value of the Ticket, which shall be no less than the difference between the fare actually paid and the lowest fare applicable to the Passenger's actual itinerary, (f) delete miles in the Passenger’s frequent flyer account (Mileage Plan), revoke the Passenger’s elite status, if any, in the Mileage Plan, terminate the Passenger’s participation in the Mileage Plan, or take any other action permitted by the Mileage Plan “Conditions of Membership”
An airline does not accept "because is was cheaper."
From AS Contract of Carriage:
Fares apply for travel only between the points for which they are published. Tickets may not be purchased and used at fare(s) from an initial departure point on the Ticket which is before the Passenger's actual point of origin of travel or to a more distant point(s) than the Passenger's actual destination being traveled, even when the purchase and use of such Tickets would produce a lower fare. This practice is known as “Hidden Cities Ticketing” or “Beyond Point Ticketing” and is prohibited by Alaska. Note: For this instance, co-terminals are considered to be the same point.
Where a Ticket is invalidated as the result of the Passenger’s non-compliance with any term or condition of sale or any fare rule (including prohibitions on Back to Back Ticketing, Throwaway Ticketing, Hidden Cities Ticketing or Beyond Point Ticketing), Alaska has the right in its sole discretion to take all actions permitted by law, including, but not limited to, the following: (a) cancel any remaining portion of the Passenger's itinerary, (b) confiscate unused flight coupons, (c) refuse to board the Passenger or carry the Passenger's Baggage, unless the difference between the fare paid and the fare for transportation used is collected prior to boarding, (d) refuse to refund an otherwise refundable Ticket, (e) assess the Passenger for the actual remaining value of the Ticket, which shall be no less than the difference between the fare actually paid and the lowest fare applicable to the Passenger's actual itinerary, (f) delete miles in the Passenger’s frequent flyer account (Mileage Plan), revoke the Passenger’s elite status, if any, in the Mileage Plan, terminate the Passenger’s participation in the Mileage Plan, or take any other action permitted by the Mileage Plan “Conditions of Membership”
The reason is irrelevant, the crux of my initial question was, what happens to the tax portion of your ticket when you do not fly on that leg (i.e. why must one pay an international departure tax if you do not take an international flight or why pay the TSA fee if you never step foot in an airport).
turns out the US tax is only refundable if the ticket is refundable BUT the TSA charge is refundable.
Feb 2, 2017, 8:57 pm
#15
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SJC
Programs: AS MVP
Posts: 2,117
The reason is irrelevant, the crux of my initial question was, what happens to the tax portion of your ticket when you do not fly on that leg (i.e. why must one pay an international departure tax if you do not take an international flight or why pay the TSA fee if you never step foot in an airport).
turns out the US tax is only refundable if the ticket is refundable BUT the TSA charge is refundable.
turns out the US tax is only refundable if the ticket is refundable BUT the TSA charge is refundable.