Apr 7, 2016, 12:56 am
Last edit by: dmodemd
Other threads of interest:
Alaska Airlines published timeline on VX Mileage Plan elite benefits
VX Catering North of Expected?
AS Mileage Plan and VX Elevate Speculation Thread
AS Merger Impact on VX Routes
VX Acquisition: What, if any, customer experience practices might AS adopt?
AS/VX merger impact on Polenta
Hawaiian after Alaska Air Virgin America Merger
Speculation: AS Acquiring VX: Any Guess as to AA-AS Impact?
WN: Alaska Air buys Virgin America for $2.6 billion
DL to buy VX?
How much would the proposed [NOW ANNOUNCED] VX/AS Merger Affect UA at SFO/West Coast?
VX for sale?
Fortune: Virgin America Can Help Alaska Airlines Up its Game on Several Fronts
RIP VX
jetBlue bids for Virgin America
And there's this priceless gem:
Should JetBlue now buy AS?
Airliners.net thread
What other threads are out there?
Alaska Airlines published timeline on VX Mileage Plan elite benefits
VX Catering North of Expected?
AS Mileage Plan and VX Elevate Speculation Thread
AS Merger Impact on VX Routes
VX Acquisition: What, if any, customer experience practices might AS adopt?
AS/VX merger impact on Polenta
Hawaiian after Alaska Air Virgin America Merger
Speculation: AS Acquiring VX: Any Guess as to AA-AS Impact?
WN: Alaska Air buys Virgin America for $2.6 billion
DL to buy VX?
How much would the proposed [NOW ANNOUNCED] VX/AS Merger Affect UA at SFO/West Coast?
VX for sale?
Fortune: Virgin America Can Help Alaska Airlines Up its Game on Several Fronts
RIP VX
jetBlue bids for Virgin America
And there's this priceless gem:
Should JetBlue now buy AS?
Airliners.net thread
What other threads are out there?
Alaska Air Group to Acquire Virgin America [Discussion from April 4, 2016]
Apr 4, 2016, 11:43 am
#46
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Odd, I'd always prefer F to Y. Never a question. The things I didn't like about VX were the lack of F upgrades that all the legacies and AS give out, their lacking route network, and their safety video.
Apr 4, 2016, 11:45 am
#47
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Apr 4, 2016, 11:47 am
#48
Join Date: May 2012
Location: DCA, lived MCI, SEA/PDX,BUF (born/raised)
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Lots of questions and few answers so far on the following items:
-How does AS compete in product-rich transcons full of established players with much deeper pockets and market tenure (ie. DL).
-Does the VX brand continue on the Airbus flying? Sounds like it won't but I cannot imagine the Alaska brand being a good for for NY-LA, NY-SF, NY-Florida flying
-How does AS convert VX loyalists who love the on-board experience and brand who will risk being forced to fly a more basic product?
-How does AS compete in product-rich transcons full of established players with much deeper pockets and market tenure (ie. DL).
-Does the VX brand continue on the Airbus flying? Sounds like it won't but I cannot imagine the Alaska brand being a good for for NY-LA, NY-SF, NY-Florida flying
-How does AS convert VX loyalists who love the on-board experience and brand who will risk being forced to fly a more basic product?
Delta has recently increased its load in Seattle thinking maybe it will take out Alaska but instead its seems to have taken out the non-Alaska carriers
I am sure AS will adopt some things VX has done that is well liked by their PAX loyalists
Completely agree. Being isolated in the PWN, AS may look great but in the rest of the world there is very little special about AS and I would never even think of connecting in SEA/PDX to go pretty much anywhere except Vancouver from SFO--and even then I would rather endure AC/UA non-stop rather than wasting time connecting.
Alaska is more than just SEA/PDX With them getting SFO its likely another hub is created
As true with any carrier and their routing PAX will question the routing. There are times I have flown between NE/GL cities on Delta/AA and had to fly through ATL/CLT. Same argument holds there.
The DCA/LGA within perimeter slots would be best sold to a competitor as neither AS nor VX have any strength at all within the Eastern half of the US. This may help AS get a little of their overpayment back but also strengthens their competitors who already have a more diversified network. Offering a mediocre product in SFO non-stop to a few destinations and then having to connect in SEA for the rest makes WN/UA and even DL/AA a lot more compelling. If you are not going to get anything special, you may as well at least gain access to a decent network. AS also just can not compete against B6's Mint product either--on price point, food, inflight entertainment or service. Without Red, good quality food, and the better seat which VX provides, they are in an even weaker position in premium transcon markets.
The only way the slot is sold if DOT requires it. AS is a west coast airline so the slots matter to them more than DL or AA or someone else
AA would never dispute AS getting the slot.
Seems AS's management has acted out of fear rather than rationality and ended up paying a ton of money which benefited all of those of us that had VX stock and sold out today, but they better think quickly about how they are going to start to pay down the huge debt they are going to be incurring. Offering the AS cabin experience and a still weak network to most of the world is just not going to be a money making proposition and will drain resources from their fight against DL in SEA.
Its actually quite rational. Its blocking B6 from getting more traction on the west coast. B6 has been more at expanding on the east coast, but not so much on the west coast
On the west coast from SEA its been mostly going to LGB or connecting there, and B6 has an ANC route
same argument on routes apply to B5 from SEA---why travel SEA-LGB-east when I could travel SEA-ORD-east.
The economies in SEA/PDX/SFO are doing great now but as many of us seen, tech goes through booms and busts just like the airlines and having all of AS's eggs in the West may very well prove to be a very big mistake. It took VX nearly its whole existence to start making money and that came during a crash in oil prices. Things won't be too pretty when the next bust comes and the "diversification" to add yet another West Coast hub may not seem too smart. They could have used their cash to invest in Apple a few months again and had a very large cushion rather than flush money down the drain.
AS is a western airline. Their eggs are just fine.
California does gain a tax windfall though for the huge gains made in the short 17 months since the IPO. Small consolation prize.
Alaska is more than just SEA/PDX With them getting SFO its likely another hub is created
As true with any carrier and their routing PAX will question the routing. There are times I have flown between NE/GL cities on Delta/AA and had to fly through ATL/CLT. Same argument holds there.
The DCA/LGA within perimeter slots would be best sold to a competitor as neither AS nor VX have any strength at all within the Eastern half of the US. This may help AS get a little of their overpayment back but also strengthens their competitors who already have a more diversified network. Offering a mediocre product in SFO non-stop to a few destinations and then having to connect in SEA for the rest makes WN/UA and even DL/AA a lot more compelling. If you are not going to get anything special, you may as well at least gain access to a decent network. AS also just can not compete against B6's Mint product either--on price point, food, inflight entertainment or service. Without Red, good quality food, and the better seat which VX provides, they are in an even weaker position in premium transcon markets.
The only way the slot is sold if DOT requires it. AS is a west coast airline so the slots matter to them more than DL or AA or someone else
AA would never dispute AS getting the slot.
Seems AS's management has acted out of fear rather than rationality and ended up paying a ton of money which benefited all of those of us that had VX stock and sold out today, but they better think quickly about how they are going to start to pay down the huge debt they are going to be incurring. Offering the AS cabin experience and a still weak network to most of the world is just not going to be a money making proposition and will drain resources from their fight against DL in SEA.
Its actually quite rational. Its blocking B6 from getting more traction on the west coast. B6 has been more at expanding on the east coast, but not so much on the west coast
On the west coast from SEA its been mostly going to LGB or connecting there, and B6 has an ANC route
same argument on routes apply to B5 from SEA---why travel SEA-LGB-east when I could travel SEA-ORD-east.
The economies in SEA/PDX/SFO are doing great now but as many of us seen, tech goes through booms and busts just like the airlines and having all of AS's eggs in the West may very well prove to be a very big mistake. It took VX nearly its whole existence to start making money and that came during a crash in oil prices. Things won't be too pretty when the next bust comes and the "diversification" to add yet another West Coast hub may not seem too smart. They could have used their cash to invest in Apple a few months again and had a very large cushion rather than flush money down the drain.
AS is a western airline. Their eggs are just fine.
California does gain a tax windfall though for the huge gains made in the short 17 months since the IPO. Small consolation prize.
Apr 4, 2016, 11:50 am
#49
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BOS
Programs: DL GM
Posts: 300
As an AA elite based in SFO who ended up flying Alaska every week for almost a year, this feels like the best possible outcome for me. A strong AA partner who I have always greatly enjoyed flying will gain an SFO hub. Plus finally I'll have an SFO-SAN nonstop I can credit to AA.
I could even see myself switching programs from AA to AS depending on how this all goes.
I could even see myself switching programs from AA to AS depending on how this all goes.
The question is, how many people are in a similar situation and see the network expansion as a beneficial thing? Many loyal VX flyers see this as a negative, with the assumption that the AS experience won't be as good as VX. But to get similar coverage, they will have to choose between UA and AS...
Now, how do I convince AS to buy SY - then I can do BOS-MSP nonstop, and I'll never have a reason to fly DL again?
Apr 4, 2016, 11:51 am
#50
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As an AA elite based in SFO who ended up flying Alaska every week for almost a year, this feels like the best possible outcome for me. A strong AA partner who I have always greatly enjoyed flying will gain an SFO hub. Plus finally I'll have an SFO-SAN nonstop I can credit to AA.
I could even see myself switching programs from AA to AS depending on how this all goes.
I could even see myself switching programs from AA to AS depending on how this all goes.
I'm somewhat persuaded by all of the very good points that have been made here, doubting the wisdom of this deal. Still, I wonder whether (and hope that) AS management has some method to its apparent madness in terms of avoiding marginalization that might have resulted from a JetBlue-Virgin merger; intelligent use of the Virgin planes for appropriate markets, so as to retain existing Virgin loyalists and expand the combined airline's appeal; and distinguishing itself in other ways (not least the aforementioned FF program).
I'd emphasize that last point a bit. There are respects in which the Big Three are going steadily downhill in not just their FF programs but other aspects of their service and operations, due to reduced competition. Perhaps AS management sees ways of capitalizing on that via an expanded airline that retains the appeal of both Alaska and Virgin? It need not even improve in this market; it simply needs to retain existing strengths as competitors race to the bottom in several respects.
Apr 4, 2016, 11:53 am
#51
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You probably aren't a teenaged girl who liked the in-seat video and the general "Star Trek" feel of a VX cabin.
Personally, I'm fairly indifferent to F vs. Y on ~2-3 hour flights or less, as long as it's not knee-crunching NK pitch or something horrible. (Not surprisingly, I'm willing to fly airlines like VX or WN where you won't be getting free upgrades.) Mediocre booze and a snack? Meh. That's like $10-20 outside the plane. Quite often when I get someplace and how much I paid to get there are far more important. The bigger seat's nice but not essential if Y isn't horrible.
Personally, I'm fairly indifferent to F vs. Y on ~2-3 hour flights or less, as long as it's not knee-crunching NK pitch or something horrible. (Not surprisingly, I'm willing to fly airlines like VX or WN where you won't be getting free upgrades.) Mediocre booze and a snack? Meh. That's like $10-20 outside the plane. Quite often when I get someplace and how much I paid to get there are far more important. The bigger seat's nice but not essential if Y isn't horrible.
Apr 4, 2016, 11:56 am
#52
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 119
After reading your post I looked up the safety video - I thought it was terrific!
Apr 4, 2016, 12:03 pm
#53
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: SMF/HPN
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Posts: 464
As a millennial, I feel obligated to fly Virgin America before the merger is complete. I've never flown it!
I'm more bummed about the potential for AS to keep and use the airbuses-- there is something really nice about having an all boeing fleet and being a Seattle company. Yes, I know it's called marketing but it works.
I'm more bummed about the potential for AS to keep and use the airbuses-- there is something really nice about having an all boeing fleet and being a Seattle company. Yes, I know it's called marketing but it works.
Apr 4, 2016, 12:07 pm
#55
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SJC
Programs: DL PM MM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 3,276
You probably aren't a teenaged girl who liked the in-seat video and the general "Star Trek" feel of a VX cabin.
Personally, I'm fairly indifferent to F vs. Y on ~2-3 hour flights or less, as long as it's not knee-crunching NK pitch or something horrible. (Not surprisingly, I'm willing to fly airlines like VX or WN where you won't be getting free upgrades.) Mediocre booze and a snack? Meh. That's like $10-20 outside the plane. Quite often when I get someplace and how much I paid to get there are far more important. The bigger seat's nice but not essential if Y isn't horrible.
Personally, I'm fairly indifferent to F vs. Y on ~2-3 hour flights or less, as long as it's not knee-crunching NK pitch or something horrible. (Not surprisingly, I'm willing to fly airlines like VX or WN where you won't be getting free upgrades.) Mediocre booze and a snack? Meh. That's like $10-20 outside the plane. Quite often when I get someplace and how much I paid to get there are far more important. The bigger seat's nice but not essential if Y isn't horrible.
Most of AS's flights are short enough where the PTV doesn't mean a thing. Also, AS is getting the Boeing Sky interior, which is kind of like mood lighting.
Too each their own, I found the music annoying and it felt like it dragged on too long. I prefer the DL humor videos over the VX video. It's just personal taste.
Apr 4, 2016, 12:11 pm
#56
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 20
As a millennial, I feel obligated to fly Virgin America before the merger is complete. I've never flown it!
I'm more bummed about the potential for AS to keep and use the airbuses-- there is something really nice about having an all boeing fleet and being a Seattle company. Yes, I know it's called marketing but it works.
I'm more bummed about the potential for AS to keep and use the airbuses-- there is something really nice about having an all boeing fleet and being a Seattle company. Yes, I know it's called marketing but it works.
As far as an all Boeing fleet, I sometimes like to be a passenger on odd variants. I hope to sometime be aboard a 737-600 (Westjet???), A318 (Air France???). I have been on a 737-900, which is not very common. 737-900ER are common, but not the 737-900. Alaska has them. You can detect them if they don't have a side door plug near, but not at the back, something that 737-900ER's have.
Apr 4, 2016, 12:12 pm
#57
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 6km East of EPAYE
Programs: UA Silver, AA Platinum, AS & DL GM Marriott TE, Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,582
If I had to bet it would be that part of the AS re-vamp of branding and F (which was previously announced) will be our first look at a blended product. Honestly I don't care about TV those VX F seats are sweet. Let's keep those.
Apr 4, 2016, 12:17 pm
#58
Join Date: May 2006
Location: TUS/PDX
Programs: WN CP/A-List, AS MVPG75K
Posts: 5,798
A small TV on a plane seems unnecessary when I've got a 55" LED TV sitting in my living room that has access to practically every movie ever made.
WN said the same thing about the 717s. They went away very fast. I wouldn't be surprised to see the A320s go away either.
Apr 4, 2016, 12:18 pm
#59
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This could get very ugly very quickly if AS doesn't do some serious introspection and understand its competitive position with its product now that they've decided to play ball in SFO and LAX. The customer mindset in SFO and LAX cannot be any further than the SEA mindset that AS is accustomed to.
While we may not like everything about the ride that is about to happen, as long as the current team runs the show, I have a lot of confidence that every decision has a rational basis behind it even if not outwardly apparent, one that will keep us flying the Eskimo for years to come.
As an FF of both AS and VX, while I'll miss VX, I am as happy as one can be in this circumstance in the result.