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AS Merger Impact on VX Routes [Consolidated]

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Old Apr 4, 16, 7:49 am
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AS Merger Impact on VX Routes [Consolidated]

With this merger, why do I have the feeling that PDX is going to be reduced from a HUB to a focus city...........
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Old Apr 4, 16, 10:12 am
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What is AS going to do with the intra-perimeter slots at DCA? Will the sell them to B6 or WN?
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Old Apr 4, 16, 11:22 am
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AS Merger Inpact on VX Routes [Consolidated]

What will Alaska do with the inter-perimeter slots at DCA/LGA? Do they sell them to B6 or WN?
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Old Apr 4, 16, 11:24 am
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Originally Posted by bradleyl12 View Post
What will Alaska do with the inter-perimeter slots at DCA/LGA? Do they sell them to B6 or WN?
The merger was just officially announced this morning, fer chrissakes. I doubt even AS knows what they're doing yet, and even if they did they haven't told anybody.
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Old Apr 4, 16, 11:37 am
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you also asked this in the VX sale thread. at this point nobody knows but can't see AS keeping the DCA-DAL slot.
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Old Apr 4, 16, 11:54 am
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Well, I would think that AS analysts are crunching those numbers. Basically, we are talking about whether the DAL operation is profitable. If not, can the DAL gates and DCA/LGA slots be sold for a tidy profit or can the DCA/LGA routes be moved to another city?

Part of the problem with DAL is that the operation is never going to grow. It will stay static at two gates. Either you accept that level of service or you sell it off.
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Old Apr 4, 16, 12:07 pm
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Originally Posted by formeraa View Post
Well, I would think that AS analysts are crunching those numbers. Basically, we are talking about whether the DAL operation is profitable. If not, can the DAL gates and DCA/LGA slots be sold for a tidy profit or can the DCA/LGA routes be moved to another city?

Part of the problem with DAL is that the operation is never going to grow. It will stay static at two gates. Either you accept that level of service or you sell it off.
I would imagine that the DOT isn't going to allow "hey, you can sell to anyone you want!" on LGA/DCA slots or DAL gates, considering the fits they threw during the AA/US merger or the entire negotiations for DAL gate space.

I don't see a different inside-perimeter city that makes sense for AS. They've done niche operations before (SJC, SAN, all the Hawaii P2P flights out of places like OAK and SMF), so why should a small focus city at DAL be any different?

And AS's operation hasn't grown at DFW for a looooooong time. It's a spoke with 5 or 6 flights a day (a one gate operation). Moving the SEA/PDX-DFW flights to DAL might actually make sense compared to some of the wacky things VX has done (DAL-AUS, DAL-LAS).

Last edited by eponymous_coward; Apr 4, 16 at 12:16 pm
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Old Apr 4, 16, 12:12 pm
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LGA slots are hard to get. AS has considered LGA service, according to what one senior management told me once on the plane but slots were the biggest problem, he said. For the curious, that is essentially all he said and not a long conversation. FYI, I asked him about LGA-xxx-SEA with a quick stop, even a technical stop.

My guess is that they will keep the slots so that they cannot be accused of giving them up if they ever wanted slots for outside the perimeter, if those ever became possible.
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Old Apr 4, 16, 12:29 pm
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AS has two years to figure it out.
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Old Apr 4, 16, 12:36 pm
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
AS's operation hasn't grown at DFW for a looooooong time. It's a spoke with 5 or 6 flights a day (a one gate operation).
A 2-gate operation in the morning.
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Old Apr 4, 16, 12:54 pm
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Hopefully regulators will force the "New AS" to keep the former VX transcon routes?

Also, will VX's planes be ripped of the PTV's/mood lighting, or will AS's planes get PTV's?
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Old Apr 4, 16, 12:57 pm
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Originally Posted by dayone View Post
A 2-gate operation in the morning.
How convenient that DAL gives them two gates, then. (I've never seen the second DFW gate in use, but I must not be going at the right times, then.)
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Old Apr 4, 16, 1:37 pm
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
And AS's operation hasn't grown at DFW for a looooooong time. It's a spoke with 5 or 6 flights a day (a one gate operation). Moving the SEA/PDX-DFW flights to DAL might actually make sense compared to some of the wacky things VX has done (DAL-AUS, DAL-LAS).
Two things everyone is forgetting: If AS were to move to DAL, they'd have to give up an equal amount of gate space at DFW, per the revised Wright Amendment. There was quite a mess with Ft Worth and WN when the AirTran acquisition took place.

DFW has so many connection opportunities DAL will never have. I have coworkers who routinely fly PDX-DFW on AS, then onward on AA.

I would be shocked if AS stayed at DAL. I would imagine Delta is already lobbying to buy the gates from AS. It would get rid of the lawsuit between DL, Dallas and WN. Delta would get to run a pretty robust schedule from DAL and WN would get the full use of that one United gate.
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Old Apr 4, 16, 1:53 pm
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Originally Posted by tusphotog View Post
Two things everyone is forgetting: If AS were to move to DAL, they'd have to give up an equal amount of gate space at DFW, per the revised Wright Amendment. There was quite a mess with Ft Worth and WN when the AirTran acquisition took place.
There would be no way AS would stay at DFW if they moved to DAL; they'd just drop DFW for DAL. And how can they give up equal amounts of space if they don't have it to start with?

Originally Posted by tusphotog View Post
DFW has so many connection opportunities DAL will never have. I have coworkers who routinely fly PDX-DFW on AS, then onward on AA.
You can flow passengers to other AA hubs (ORD, PHX). You could also keep passengers on AA flights for the XXX-DFW segments. You might make more revenue using DAL more efficiently than VX has and sacrificing the ex-DFW connections to SHV and LIT.

There is literally no point to LGA/DCA within perimeter slots if you don't have someplace within perimeter to fly to, and California's not within perimeter. DAL is not a terrible candidate for an in-perimeter city. A DAL focus city that is gate capped in a way that won't offend AA very much (and still competes against WN) is not the worst idea ever.

Originally Posted by tusphotog View Post
I would be shocked if AS stayed at DAL. I would imagine Delta is already lobbying to buy the gates from AS. It would get rid of the lawsuit between DL, Dallas and WN.
Considering that the DOT basically laughed in DL's face when they asked for some DAL space, I don't see it happening (they could have allowed a VX/DL split but didn't). I would bet that other airlines would get the space if AS decided to vacate the premises. I doubt it's AS's to just give away as they please.

I also suspect they wouldn't be able to do an open bidding for DCA/LGA slots, either, for much the same reason.
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Old Apr 4, 16, 2:02 pm
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Originally Posted by dayone View Post
DAL gates are currently the subject of litigation in at least two courts. The government would have something to say about any sale. And a sale to WN would create a monopoly, and we all know how the DOJ feels about monopolies.

DAL or DFW? VX's loads increased after moving from DFW to DAL, but AS's relationship with AA will be a factor. Also, VX's DAL gates are being operated at capacity. They cannot be "more utilized."

Slots at restricted airports and government-granted routes will be scrutinized.
Just a point in wording, there is not slot restrictions at DAL, there is however a total number of gates restricted
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