RetiredSFOATC

I have a lot of questions about bus gates. First of all, let me say that I *hate* them - necessary or not - and I'm seeing more and more of these unhappy experiences pop up. But here are a few of my questions, for starters:

• How do these buses, and the extra time they add to an aircraft's arrival, fit into the flight/airline's "on-time" rating? If an aircraft is a borderline delayed arrival, let's say by 10 minutes, and the airline chooses to put that flight in remote parking and bus the PAX, which then adds another 10 (minimum!) minutes to the actual gate arrival time, is the aircraft officially delayed? (This example assumes that all airlines use the FAA definition of "delay" to be 15 minutes or longer, but it could be any number.)
• Is there any consideration given to those with tight connections when deciding which flights to park remotely? I know that recently when I was on a remotely-parked arrival in SFO, the flight was already late, and the extra 15 minutes it took to actually get to the terminal caused some people to miss connections - felt really bad for them, and was just as glad that I wasn't one of them.
• What's the best way to let AS know our feelings on this? When I say something to a flight crew or GA about it, it always gets a "I know...." response. Would it be customer service (Alaska Listens)? I think the general attitude is "it's beyond our control..." but SOMEone SOMEwhere is making those decisions.

It's usually a bit humorous - in an unfunny way - watching fellow passengers react to these bus ops. Typically it starts with a curious "what's this?" and then often deteriorates to downright fury by the time everyone has struggled with ramps, stairs, crowded buses, wet or hot weather, and finally arrives at the "real" gate.

I'm one of those people who does believe that unless we speak up and express unhappiness about these kinds of things, the general take by a company is "well, nobody has complained, so it must be ok..." Of course I believe just as strongly that it should always be polite - but firm.

beckoa

I think the reality is, there are not enough gates at SEA and bus gates are here to stay. Letting AS know our feelings is nice and all, but operationally we're stuck with them. And I'm sure there are metrics that go into the selection and would be surprised for them to be discussed on FT (as they are probably an internal matter).
Sure, AS could *not* use them and allow DL to expand. They'd lose market share and more gates, going into a bad spiral.

Once N is completed (with the expansion and remodel) AS will have more gates. But I imagine we'll still see bus gates around at its conclusion.

AS Flyer

My experiences on the remote buses in Seattle so far have not been the same as yours. The one negative I can see is that, when a flight is slightly delayed, it has the potential to negatively affect connections. Other than that, the perception by some may be that it's a huge hassle but the reality is that it isn't a whole lot worse then taking the train to/from the N gates. The buses run pretty smoothly, I've yet to see one uncomfortably packed to the gills. They're almost always pretty timely. I don't see people fuming over having to take a bus to the terminal. It really doesn't seem to be causing a whole lot of angst. All that said, the bus gates are here to stay - I don't see them going away. It's more a Port of Seattle thing then an Alaska thing.

In answer to your question about on time stats - the plane's arrival time is when it's parked at the remote stand and the chocks are put in front of the wheels - it has nothing to do with when the bus gets the first load of passengers to the terminal building. One benefit I've noticed at some times is, when the planes are taking off to the south, if you're leaving from the north remote parking stands, you're much closer to the runway and the taxi time is significantly less.

sullim4

Agreed, SEA is at capacity. I wish AS would consider mainline service out of PAE to open up gate capacity at SEA. Take the routes that have high O/D traffic out of SEA and route them to PAE instead. Then chop frequency out of SEA and relieve some pressure, or use it to add additional routes. They have a few A319s from Virgin that they could use to test the waters at PAE.

beckoa

This thread reminded me of a wiki I started for the SEA bus gates.

I updated a few that I recalled. Seems DTW pops up a bit? What else? Please update.

A318neo

Data point:
1. (2020 - A320 arrival from DTW) arrived at hardstand north of the north terminal. Saw about 3 other Alaska planes and one EVA Cargo 777 nearby. Ramps used, not stairs, though there are some steps that could be used on part of the ramp. Discharges passengers outside the D bus gates, not through the D bus gates. Entrance into the terminal through a series of winding ramps to the landing between the N train/A train station below and the TSA checkpoint 5 above. Fairly well shielded from rain except a short stretch between the ramp and the bus. Two buses used. Opinion: not so bad. No good area to wave at the top of the plane, like a President might.

The bus ride is very short but it does add time to get off the plane, possibly 10 minutes. The people sitting around row 25 are affected the least because they get off the plane at the usual time then walk to the bus which then departs almost immediately.

I saw a bus with a flight number and sign with Burbank on it. I don't know whether it was a SEA-BUR or a BUR-SEA flight.

2. (2017 - 737-900(ER) arrival from JFK) arrived at the end of the north satellite. Walked down some ramps without protection from rain. Walked into the north satellite. This area might not be there anymore due to the expansion of the north satellite.

I have no experience departing from a bus gate at Seattle.

bostonbali

I was on a 739 yesterday (1/22/20), landing at SEA from JFK. Ended up on a hard stand - arrived at the main terminal (in escalator area between D gates and train to N gates) 14 minutes after deplaning on the hard stand.
Not a fan of the dreaded gate 'D20.'

beckoa

Departed on 2/4/20 from D26... yay. Was surprised to see the snow outside. AS1420 SEA-BNA. Delayed due to deicing etc and trying to get on in general.

dayone

From a reddit post (5/4/2023):

"As traffic grows beyond 2019 levels, the hardstand gates will be used again. These are the ones where you'll need to take a bus to get to the aircraft, or to the terminal. Alaska primarily uses D6, D21-D26, but other shuttle gates may be used (A20-A21, B20-B21). Gate assignments are typically locked in around an hour prior to departure."

navydevildoc

Yeah, saw that too. Good that it means flight volume (and therefore route diversity) is growing, but those bus gates just suuuuck.

Waitlisted

Oh man I hate those, they are usually for later arrivals and I’ve spent too many nights either in a Seattle airport hotel or renting a car to drive to PDX because it takes sooooooo long to unload and ride the bus to the terminal it usually misses the last PDX flights which are 10:45 - 11:15. If only AS would add back some of the PDX nonstops they took away.

beckoa

...and I was just showing another FTer these tonight. Glad demand is there, annoyed at using them.

NoLaGent

I’m an anomaly, it seems, because I love them! I enjoy the drive on the tarmac, but especially being able to snap pics from there and the stairs. I usually never have the pressure of a connection, so that certainly helps too.

mildfrequence

These also totally screw the boarding order up imo, which I wouldn't consider a big deal except I usually want to secure my bin space early

anteater

An easy fix would be to load the bus with a single boarding group at a time and perform multiple trips. /s

I’m while to see AS’ traffic increasing, but I’m sad to see the return of these gates.