HA A330 getting Lie-flat seats - will AS upgrade ETOPS first class?
 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...lines/74256568

The relatively cramped first class seat pitch on AS is adequate for shorter flights, but for tall people like myself (6'2"), it can get uncomfortable on longer flights. With HA stepping up their game, perhaps AS can do SOMETHING on ETOPS equipment.

Sure - there is a big difference between wide and narrow body aircraft, I expect AS will stick with 737s, but the current hard and soft product could use some improvement to attempt to remain competitive.

An A330 can fly 10 hours or more. A 737 tops out around 6 and usually does less. Apples and oranges.

+1...total apples to oranges situation here....only the A330s are getting lie flights which are mostly used on their long haul routes like Hawaii-Asia and JFK-HNL....I can almost guarantee you that their new A321 narrow bodies they'll be using on many of their competing AS routes like PDX-HNL will not have lie flats.

AS is never getting lie-flats. Ever.

It would be nice to get a more modern F seat with a little more personal space but to do that they would either have to cut the number of F seats, or expand the cabin (reducing the number of Y seats) so I'm not holding my breath.

Now I will be interested if SAN ever sees one of these lie-flat HA 330's - we have that A/C daily to HNL.

great news for potential J routings to SYD and AKL as HA is often among the cheaper options ex-HNL. however, i'm sure the price will bump up once these installs are completed. :(

Try 7 but I get your point and agree with it

Holding one's breath would be suicide.

More space would mean fewer F seats. Period. AS F is a Spartan offering by design. I prefer it that way as a reasonably-available upgrade benefit, not as a more expensive competitive product.

If the long running rumors are true and they get 787s, those should have lie-flats. :p :D

AS doesn't like subfleets with different seating configurations. Note that they ripped out the forward lavs from their 739s (which were a subfleet).

Also, the most likely way to enlarge the F cabin is to shrink the pitch in the Y cabin. 30" pitch like UA/AA for tall people like myself (6'2") gets VERY uncomfortable on longer flights, and one of the reasons I fly AS is that I can get at least 32" pitch in coach in EVERY seat in the cabin. But I guess I don't count since I'm in coach. ;)

hawaii is a leisure market with zero market for lie flat seats. HA may be able to get a decent premium from JFK and it's international market. but that's about it.

Gee, I wonder if there's similar speculation in the HA board as follows:

AS is converting some -700s to all freighters, whether HA will be converting some of its aircraft to all freighters?

AS to likely get rid of its combi planes? Will HA follow (by getting some and then getting rid of some?)

Couldn't agree more so long as all they operate are 737s. Either A. they would have to tear out 2 rows of F seats and only have 8 seats up front or B. rip out 2 or 3 rows of main cabin seats. Neither of which is happening. You would see them pull out a row of F seats to add a row or 2 of coach seats before either one of the for mentioned ideas.

VX has close to almost lie flat with an 8 class F cabin. Here is the kicker though. Paid F is $1300 each way for a 5 hour nonstop to OGG from SFO. Paid F on AS OGG to OAK is roughly $730 each way. Less seats to sell=higher prices to make up for less tickets. So if Im flying from the bay area to OGG its a no brainer simple choice for me, save almost $1200 for the trip per person. On a 5 hour flight who cares if the seat reclines back 56 inches. To each his own though, if one thinks 56 inches of pitch and mood lights is worth $1200 for 10 hours then by all means

Of course, the fares will go up! The lie-flat seats take up TWICE as much room on the plane. So, the fares for them will go up significantly (about the same as other carriers with lie-flat seats on those transpac routes). You can also bet that the mainland-Hawaii A330 F fares will increase as well.

AS sees F as upgrade class. They made their seats worse, what makes you think AS would reconfigure them to make them better after that. HA is doing this to compete with the big long haul international carriers so i don't think AS would be much interested in what HA is doing for that market segment.

HA is getting some A321s. Will AS follow and get some A321s? :p

Under the current fleet and mission of AS, I agree, but when AS change its mission to include long distance international flight, I think I would see AS to include them and (adds AS flair). I believe AS will eventually evolve and someday include international flights.... That day is not today.

Jiburi

that reminds me, I have a picture of a 787 hooked up to an AS PCA unit :D I should find that and post it




at the museum of flight ;)

The use of "when" is wishful, at best.

if they plan on being around another 50 years at some point they will. Might be 15 or 20 years but at some point there would have to be a when. Just flying around North America from mainly the west coast there are only so many growth opportunities. I think when the MAX starts arriving you may see more central america stuff or even something like NAS or SJU

You're right. AS' only hope is high-cost, low-yield flights to distant leisure destinations. No need to follow through with its plans to develop new focus cities or increase partner connectivity, especially with AA.

Did I miss something? There is development of some new focus cities?

One or two.

If one reads just the headline of a news article, then it's often possible to miss important information -- in this case, the proposed routes.

From Australian Business Traveller (a good information source, even for those of us in the US) comes this detail about Hawaiian Air adding lie-flat seats on A330s:

This. Which is why the F seat on the -400 is better than the 800/900. Yes you get power on the newer planes, but it is cramped.

And this is it right here. For HA the A330 is a longhaul plane primarily to compete West from Hawaii and a few long (JFK) routes. Someone reported up thread that the A330 does show up in SAN, but that's not surprising, they're always going to have some schedules where they need to squeeze in a shorter route to get full plane utilization.

But overall, this will allow them to compete with QF/AA/DL for far Asian destinations. It's not about the Mainland <=> Hawaii leisure market.

The 330 will very much be apart of the west coast-Hawaii network. These lie flats will allow HAL to better compete on the international stage and up the ante in the west coast market.

These lie flat seats will be on ALL 330s. That means they'll be flown on far more than just the SYD and BNE flying and will include all 330 destinations, which is at this point, nearly the entire international network and most of the domestic.

I doubt it, they are getting A321s for the west coast flights. Might see them on a few flights but anything within range of an A321NEO will probably be done by an A321NEO.

Even if they are used on Domestic, its not the NA-Hawaii flyer they are trying to grab. Its the Connecting international traffic. Which AS doesn't care about since they don't fly true international (Outside North/Central America)

Sort of. You're right... they're getting them for west coast flights. They'll be used for expansion, and increasing frequencies in current markets. They'll likely replace the last 767s and be used to split cities up that currently see 1 330/day, for example HNL-PDX/OGG-PDX could be done on 2 321neo's. However... the 330 will still very much be apart of the west coast network. The 321neo WILL NOT replace all or even the majority of the widebody flying to the west coast.

The F cabin is often sold out on the west coast flights. So yes... they're actually market the new cabins to those guests, as they do today.