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DL Encroaches Further on AS' Turf - Master Thread

DL Encroaches Further on AS' Turf - Master Thread

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Old Mar 2, 20, 9:51 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: eponymous_coward
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To try to make sense of what's all happening between AS and DL, the idea arose during the recent Alaska do to create a compendium in the wiki of the various stages of the current spat. Please add your knowledge where you can!

Timeline of events:

**proposed format for new route announcements**
mm/dd/yy [date of announcement] Airline XXX-YYY [new vs changed] [frequency] dd/mm/yy [date of service/change] Airline Press Release link | FT thread/post link
  1. 2008: Delta and Northwest merge, Delta's staff takes over relationship with Alaska
  2. 06/05/09 Alaska ATL - SEA New 1x daily 23/10/09 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  3. 2011: Alaska allegedly (using data gleaned from codeshare sales) tries to lower the ratio of the fare it pays Delta on codeshare itineraries
  4. 08/10/12: The infamous "joint" Seattle press conference where Delta CEO Richard Anderson announces they will ramp up international service in Seattle (AS CEO Brad Tilden stays quiet in the background) -- DL Announcement | FT Thread
  5. 01/11/12 Alaska SLC - SEA New 2x daily 04/04/13 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  6. 25/02/13 Delta announces resumption of SEA-ANC, new SEA-LAS. Hard to find press release/news, but this site mentions it.
  7. 02/05/13 Alaska ATL - PDX New 1x daily 26/08/13 AS Announcement
  8. 01/10/13 Delta SEA - LAS Increase from 1x - 3x daily 06/01/14 -> 5x daily 01/04/14 DL Announcement | Post #1
  9. 01/10/13 Delta SEA - SFO New 6x daily 29/03/14 -> 7x daily 05/06/14 DL Announcement | Post #1
  10. 01/10/13 Delta SEA - LAX Increase from 5x - 7x daily 05/06/14 DL Announcement |Post #1
  11. 05/11/13 Delta SEA - SAN New 4x daily 02/06/14 DL Announcement | Post #77
  12. 05/11/13 Delta SEA - ANC Increase 1x to 2x daily summer seasonal 05/06/14 DL Announcement | Post #90
  13. 05/11/13 Delta SEA - PDX New 4x daily 02/09/14 DL Announcement | Post #77
  14. 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - PDX 09/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  15. 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - SAN 10/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  16. 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - LAX 11/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  17. 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - SJC 12/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  18. 17/12/13 Delta SEA - ANC 29/05/14 (increased from 2x-3x daily) Thread [link needed] DL Announcement
  19. 17/12/13 Delta SEA - JNU 29/05/14 Thread [link needed] DL Announcement | Post #268
  20. 17/12/13 Delta SEA - SJC 29/05/14 Thread [link needed] DL Announcement
  21. 20/12/13 Alaska SLC - BOI 16/06/14 New 1x Daily AS Announcement
  22. 20/12/13 Alaska SLC - LAS 16/06/14 New 2x Daily AS Announcement
  23. 20/12/13 Alaska SLC - SFO 18/06/14 New 1x Daily AS Announcement
  24. 10/02/14 Delta PHX - SEA 20/12/14 New 5x Daily CRJ-900 DL Announcement
  25. 10/02/14 Delta PSP - SEA 20/12/14 New 1x Daily CRJ-900 Winter Season DL Announcement
  26. 10/02/14 Delta TUS - SEA 20/12/14 New Saturday CRJ-900 Winter Season DL Announcement
  27. 10/02/14 Delta HNL - SEA 20/12/14 Increase 1x to 2x Daily 757-200/757-300 DL Announcement
  28. 11/02/14 Alaska DTW - SEA 04/09/14 New 1x Daily AS Announcement
  29. 11/02/14 Alaska MSY - SEA 12/06/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
  30. 11/02/14 Alaska SEA - TPA 20/06/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
  31. 26/02/14 Delta Delta changes SkyMiles to revenue based points/miles DL Announcement
  32. 28/03/14 Alaska BWI - SEA 02/09/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
  33. 28/03/14 Alaska ABQ - SEA 18/09/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
  34. 28/03/14 Alaska ATL - PDX 01/09/14 Discontinued 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
  35. 17/03/14 Delta BOI - LAX 05/16/14 New 1x Daily E-175 DL Announcement
  36. 09/05/14 Alaska CUN - SEA 06/11/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 Seasonal AS Announcement
  37. 27/05/14 Delta GEG - SEA 03/11/14 New 4x Daily CRJ-700 DL Announcement
  38. 27/05/14 Delta SEA - YYC 03/11/14 New 2x Daily E-175 DL Announcement
  39. 27/05/14 Delta OGG - SEA 20/12/14 New 1x Daily 757-200 DL Announcement
  40. 27/05/14 Delta BZN - SEA 20/12/14 New Saturday E-175 Winter Season (Flight will op 1x Daily from 20/12/14-04/01/15) DL Announcement
  41. 27/05/14 Delta SEA - SJD 20/12/14 New Saturday A319 Winter Season DL Announcement
  42. 27/05/14 Delta PVR - SEA 20/12/14 New Saturday A319 Winter Season DL Announcement
  43. 27/05/14 Alaska Announces 11% increase in SEA flying for Spring 2015 AS Announcement
  44. 27/05/14 Alaska BOI - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 8x to 9x Daily Q400 AS Announcement
  45. 27/05/14 Alaska BOS - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 2x to 3x Daily 737-800/737-900 AS Announcement
  46. 27/05/14 Alaska ORD - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 3x to 4x Daily 737-800/737-900 AS Announcement
  47. 27/05/14 Alaska DEN - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 4x to 5x Daily 737 AS Announcement
  48. 27/05/14 Alaska FAI - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 3x to 4x Daily 737 AS Announcement
  49. 27/05/14 Alaska PSP - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 3x to 4x Daily 737 Seasonal AS Announcement
  50. 27/05/14 Alaska SEA - SMF 08/03/15 increase from 5x to 6x Daily 737 AS Announcement
  51. 27/05/14 Alaska LAX - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 12x to 13x Daily 737 AS Announcement
  52. 27/05/14 Alaska PDX - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 24x to 27x Daily Q400 AS Announcement
  53. 27/05/14 Alaska GEG - SEA 08/03/15 replace 2x Daily Q400 with 737 AS Announcement
  54. 27/05/14 Alaska SEA - SNA 08/03/15 increase from 7x to 8x Daily 737-700/737-800 AS Announcement
  55. 08/07/14 Alaska PDX - SJD 03/11/14 New 4x Weekly 737-800/737-900 Seasonal AS Announcement
  56. 08/07/14 Alaska PDX - PVR 04/11/14 New 3x Weekly 737-800/737-900 Seasonal AS Announcement
  57. 13/11/14 Alaska IAD - SEA 11/03/15 New 1x Daily 737-800/737-900 AS Announcement
  58. 14/11/14 Delta seeks 30 (!) gates at SEA Bloomberg story
  59. 19/11/14 Delta adds SEA-DEN/BOI/SMF/KTN/SIT Summer '15 DL Press Release | FT Thread
  60. 11/25/14 Alaska Adds SEA-MKE NEW daily E-175 starting July 1, 2015 AS Press Release
  61. 11/25/14 Alaska Adds SEA-OKC NEW daily E-175 starting July 1, 2015 AS Press Release
  62. 22/02/15 Delta Announces 717 service to operate on SEA-LAX/LAS/PHX flights DL Press Release and then pulls LAS/PHX service back to regional jets. LAX service remains on 737 equipment (Delta.com)
  63. 22/02/15 Delta Extends SEA-JNU to year round service using CRJ-900 outside of summer DL Press Release
  64. 22/02/15 Delta Extends SEA-FAI to year round service using E-175 outside of summer DL Press Release
  65. 22/02/15 Delta Extends SEA-PVR/SJD seasonal Saturday service to October 3, 2015 DL Press Release and then pulls it back to start December 19, 2015 (Delta.com)
  66. 22/02/15 Delta Adds 2nd SEA-PSP seasonal flight CRJ-700 starting December 19, 2015DL Press Release
  67. 22/02/15 Delta Increases seasonal SEA-TUS Saturday flight to Daily using CRJ-700 starting December 19, 2015DL Press Release
  68. 22/02/15 Delta Adds SEA-KOA NEW daily 757-200 starting December 19, 2015DL Press Release
  69. 10/03/15 Alaska Adds SEA-JFK NEW daily 737-800 starting September 16, 2015 AS Press Release
  70. 28/04/15 Alaska Adds SEA-BNA NEW daily 737-800 starting September 23, 2015 AS Press Release
  71. 28/04/15 Alaska Adds SEA-RDU NEW daily 737-800 starting October 1, 2015 AS Press Release
  72. 28/04/15 Alaska Adds SEA-CHS NEW 4x/weekly 737-800 starting November 16, 2015 AS Press Release
  73. 14/05/15 Alaska Announces Preferred Plus Seating options AS Press Release
  74. 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-BZN Daily year round CRJ-700 on Aug 1, 2015 DL Press Release
  75. 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-PSC NEW 3x/day CRJ-700 on Nov 1, 2015 DL Press Release
  76. 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-MCO NEW 1x/day 757-200 on Dec 19, 2015 DL Press Release
  77. 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-BOS NEW 1x/day 737-800 on April 4, 2016 DL Press Release
  78. 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-YYJ NEW 3x/day CRJ-700 on April 4, 2016 DL Press Release
  79. 26/05/15 Delta Announces end to SEA-HND (Tokyo Haneda) service effective September 30. Route authority to be transferred to American to operate Los Angeles - Haneda. Seattle Times
  80. 07/22/15 Alaska announces partnership with Hainan Airlines which will reduce dependence on Delta for traffic to/from Asia AS Announcement | FT Thread
  81. 08/05/15 Alaska announces Boardroom members can access American Admirals Club starting 15 Aug and on 17 Oct that Former US Airways flights will be eligible for earn and burn miles FT Thread
  82. 09/22/15 Alaska announces partnership with Icelandair Icelandair Announcement
  83. 10/22/15 Alaska Opens New North Satellite Boardroom. AS Press Release
  84. 10/22/15 Alaska Alaska announces codeshare agreement with Emirates. AS Press Release
  85. 12/18/15 Delta Adds SEA-MSO, SEA-BIL and SEA-YEG NEW with CRJ-900/700 equipment operated by Skywest Routesonline (MSO) Routesonline (BIL) Routesonline (YEG)
  86. 01/01/16 Alaska and Delta: no more reciprocal Board Room/Sky Club Benefits
  87. 04/04/16 Alaska Alaska Air Group announces acquisition of Virgin America (Pending Government Approval). AS Press Release
  88. 05/10/16 Alaska Announces Japan Airlines as new Mileage Plan Member and codeshare partner. AS Press Release
  89. 05/11/16 DL adds Shuttle Service to Seattle (SFO and LAX)
  90. 06/21/16 Delta Will switch SEA-LHR from Delta to Virgin Atlantic using 787-9 starting March 26, 2017. Delta's 767-300ER will be reallocated seasonally to a 4x/week service on PDX-LHR from May 26, 2107-Oct 29, 2017. DL Press Release
  91. 06/21/16 Delta Add SEA-SUN Daily Dec 21, 2016-Jan 2, 2017 and Saturday's only from Jan 7-Mar 25, 2017 with CRJ-700. Routesonline | Delta.com
  92. 06/29/16 Alaska Adds SEA-SBP (San Luis Obispo) Daily year round E175 operated by SkyWest on April 17, 2017. AS Press Release
  93. 07/13/16 Alaska Adding seasonal flights to SEA-SUN. Double Daily Q400 Dec 16-Jan 2 and an added Sat/Sun from Feb 18-Mar 26, 2017. AS Press Release
  94. 07/21/16 Alaska Increasing SEA-EWR to 3 Daily flights with 737 starting May 14, 2017. AS Press Release
  95. 07/21/16 Alaska Adds SEA-ICT (Wichita) NEW daily E175 operated by SkyWest starting April 13, 2017. AS Press Release
  96. 07/21/16 Alaska Adds SEA-IND (Indianapolis) NEW daily 737 starting May 14, 2017. AS Press Release
  97. 08/14/16 Delta Adds 2nd SEA-BOS Daily 737-800 starting June 8, 2017. DL Press Release | Routesonline
  98. 08/14/16 Delta Adds SEA-EUG NEW 3x daily CRJ-700 starting April 1, 2017. Routesonline
  99. 08/14/16 Delta Adds SEA-RDU NEW daily 737-800 starting June 8, 2017. Routesonline
  100. 08/31/16 Delta discontinues SEA-BIL nonstop flights. Delta.com
  101. 08/31/16 Delta discontinues SEA-JNU from year round to seasonal until May 19, 2017. Delta.com
  102. 09/05/16 Delta discontinues SEA-MSO and SEA-BZN nonstop flights. Delta.com
  103. 10/21/2016 Delta opens a beautiful, spacious, new lounge at SeaTac, further showing how uninspiring the Board Rooms are.
  104. 3/2/2020 Delta (re)adds SEA-LHR, adds SEA-CMH, SEA-DFW, more frequencies on existing routes. Delta.com
  105. Further chronology? Please add! Loss of benefits, etc.
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Old Aug 10, 14, 7:14 pm
  #1546  
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Alright then! I stand corrected
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Old Aug 10, 14, 7:46 pm
  #1547  
 
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I also wonder how DL is doing on the E175 SEA-SFO? Whenever I take AS to SFO or OAK, it's packed.
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Old Aug 10, 14, 8:07 pm
  #1548  
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Originally Posted by golfingboy
Alright then! I stand corrected
Sorry.

See you should of made it to JNU for the DO
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Old Aug 10, 14, 8:43 pm
  #1549  
 
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Originally Posted by AS Flyer
I agree with the others. I think the passenger count that golfing boy mentions is primarily made up of those living in/around JNU. JNU is a big tourist draw primarily because of the cruise ships that stop there. When the cruise ships are in town the population probably nearly doubles - but it's only for a day. The limited number of cruises that begin/end there are on very small ships and really don't draw large numbers of people that fly in/out. The ships are really small (100 or so passengers) Additionally, I'd be very surprised if there was a large number of tourists flying in/out of JNU. I'm sure there are some, but I doubt the number is high.
SEA-JNU goes from 2x daily to 6x daily on AS in the summer months. I don't think that's local JNU-based traffic.
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Old Aug 11, 14, 9:11 am
  #1550  
 
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CrankyFlier had some good things to say this morning about AS.

http://crankyflier.com/2014/08/11/al...deltas-growth/
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Old Aug 11, 14, 1:02 pm
  #1551  
 
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Originally Posted by sltlyamusd View Post
I also wonder how DL is doing on the E175 SEA-SFO? Whenever I take AS to SFO or OAK, it's packed.
I have yet to take a AS north/south east or west that was not packed. But north/south are always packed and SAN is ever expanding for AS. And very impressed with AS as they move passengers in and out.
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Old Aug 11, 14, 3:31 pm
  #1552  
 
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Originally Posted by golfingboy View Post
JNU's MSA population is between 32-33K and JNU handles north of 350K passengers per year or 10x the residents figure, so it is very clear that the majority of passengers using JNU are not from the area.
Not true at all

remember Juneau has no road access out. Many more residents have to fly out of town.

also it is the state Capital so you have alot more volume for a small town in a large state with remote poulations that need to fly to get there.
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Old Aug 11, 14, 3:43 pm
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Originally Posted by ashill View Post


I was only fairly briefly eligible for government fares, but my understanding is that you have to have one of a set of specific reasons why you don't need the flexibility of the government fare. (Remember, no change or cancellation fees on either YCA or -CA.) But if you're completely sure that the trip is going to happen as scheduled and the restricted fare available to the general public is cheaper than the contract fare, government employees can book the restricted fare.
i work for the DoD

Its really hard to near impossible to book on a restricted fare. With DoD you need to book all authorized travel therough the boondoggle called DTS. as far as I can tell there is no option to book retricted.


the rules for bbooking off the contracted carreier are:

1. contracted carrier route times doesnt fit your schedule.
2. Is the contracted carrier sold out of the YCA/-CA farea or the plane sold out
3. last minute delay/cancelation causes you to change carriers in order to fly out.

2 and 3 should be obvious....

With 1....

For example, some route Alaska won are limited service airports where they only run 1-2 flights a day. The flight times doesnt fit your schedule. Say you were going to Boston and returning to Seattle. You had something in the AM to do so the ideal travel time would be around 1pm. But AS only has an 8an and a 6pm flight so it is justified for you to book on another carrier for a 1pm flight within reasonable fare price compared to the contracted fare. $20 not a big deal, flying a fare $500+ higher than the contracted fare is a big deal.
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Old Aug 12, 14, 12:11 am
  #1554  
 
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Originally Posted by beckoa View Post
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I wouldn't be surprised if 3x a year was an average trip for jNUites...some more some less.
I'm in and out 2-4 times a month...

but don't forget we are also the "hub" for Southeast.... Gustavus, Hoonah, Haines, Skagway, Kake, Angoon, Sitka... lots of inbound traffic with people who also continue on somewhere else...
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Old Aug 12, 14, 12:28 am
  #1555  
 
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Originally Posted by UAPremierExec View Post
I'm in and out 2-4 times a month...

but don't forget we are also the "hub" for Southeast.... Gustavus, Hoonah, Haines, Skagway, Kake, Angoon, Sitka... lots of inbound traffic with people who also continue on somewhere else...
I doubt that you are even close to the average.
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Old Aug 12, 14, 1:59 pm
  #1556  
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AS is apparently encroaching enough on DL's turf that WN just dropped SEA-SLC.
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Old Aug 12, 14, 2:40 pm
  #1557  
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward
AS is apparently encroaching enough on DL's turf that WN just dropped SEA-SLC.
Wowzers.
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Old Aug 12, 14, 3:04 pm
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
AS is apparently encroaching enough on DL's turf that WN just dropped SEA-SLC.
This is pretty old news...noted on the OAG threads on the other site at least as far back as February. Happening at the same time PDX is losing its SLC service on WN.
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Old Aug 12, 14, 3:16 pm
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Originally Posted by BOB W View Post
I doubt that you are even close to the average.
I'm PRECIOUS Ain't nothin avr'g about me!
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Old Aug 17, 14, 11:29 pm
  #1560  
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Originally Posted by golfingboy View Post
Absolutely, however, how many JNU residents out of 32-33K fly more than several times a year?

Also, this does not factor in some residents who do not fly at all. All I am saying that based on the MSA figure, in order for at least half of the customers flying in/out of JNU to be JNU based, every resident will have to travel on average 3-4 times per year. You think the average # of trips per year for 32-33K residents stands around 4 trips per year?
Given that air is the only realistic way out of town, yes.

Yes, the ferry is a reasonable alternative for some very-local-to-Southeast travel, but anything outside of maybe a 50-mile radius of Juneau is going to be done by air. And ALL travel either out of state or to the major business center of the state, Anchorage, is going to be done by air.

Even in Anchorage, I think the average number of trips by plane each year is markedly higher than for most cities in the Lower 48.

In the Lower 48, a large percentage of people travel by ground transport (car, mostly, but train and bus are reasonable methods of travel, especially train travel in certain corridors). In Alaska, ALL of that travel is moved by air (except for a small fraction of people who have the time to [or need to move a car and] take the ferry), whether it's the leisure travel that in the Lower 48 would consist of tossing the fam in the Volvo to visit Grandma in Peoria or the business trip by train on a corridor route to the nearest big city for a meeting or the lobbyist driving to the local state capital to wine and dine a politician. All of that travel is done by air in JNU (and to a slightly lesser extent, ANC, as ANC residents have more services available locally so don't need to get out as often).

Add in that, at least in the bigger cities in Alaska, the population is very transient (in ANC and FAI, especially, due to the military influence) and so maintain deep and recent connections with Outside family institutions (so visiting with the family for Christmas often means getting on a plane and flying 9 hours), and I really think there are few places in the US that can compete on a average-resident-trips-per-capita basis.

That said, I do think the increase in service to JNU in the summer is a strong indicator that not all of that traffic is local. But a much higher proportion of it than you're giving credit for is, IMHO.
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