Crew Bags in Overhead - Gate Lice
Oct 10, 2010, 3:55 pm
#31
Join Date: Jan 2008
Programs: AS MVPG, CO, NW(now DL), Flying Blue
Posts: 6,554
And brings about the same thing theyre trying to avoid in the first place. bags out of site vulnerable to theft. unlike pax who get off and wait at the gate the FAs get off 10 minutes after everybody else
Oct 10, 2010, 4:39 pm
#32
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SFO, mostly
Posts: 2,203
But, I agree that overall it takes AS longer to turn the planes around than it did 5-10 years ago, and certainly the excess carry-on luggage can't be helping with that.
Last edited by sltlyamusd; Oct 10, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Oct 10, 2010, 5:16 pm
#33
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As a frequent traveler myself, I've come up with a different system to keep the things I need close by. I pack my personal item with just this in mind. I usually put in anything I may need during flight (ipod, headphones, reading materials, computer, pen), and anything I want close by for safety and security (my camera) - i.e. I don't want other pax smashing my bag with expensive camera equipment so that their giant roller fits. This small bag fits nicely under the seat in front of me. As MVPG, my bag is almost always close by; however I prefer windows, so it is more courteous for me to have what I want under the seat in front of me than ask everyone to let me out so I can get out my ipod.
), and jacket (which doubles as a pillow or blanket). I do like to stretch my feet out under the seat in front of me, though, so what I started doing is, after takeoff, pulling the backpack out from under the seat and leaning it up against my seat just under my knees. Voila--a perfect leg rest! (It works great in F but is even doable, if a bit tight moving things around, in Y.)Is this partially because AS isn't good at enforcing a boarding order? I'm not sure AS even knows...but the fact is that they added 10 minutes to their ground time for every plane, every flight. Multiplied x the entire fleet, that's a lot of time. I don't know what the industry standard is for a 737; and I've never flown WN...but I've been told that WN's boarding process is more efficient than AS, and that they can turn around a plane pretty quickly...
- They didn't have assigned seats (although they do now, but AFAIK they have still maintained their 25-minute turnaround times, which shows this wasn't the major holdup). One major plus for this, though, was that the quality of seat you got was directly related to how early you boarded, so everyone lined up at the boarding door well before the flight started boarding. This meant that there were no late stragglers delaying departure.
- They STRICTLY enforced carry-on luggage size and weight.
- They generally--but not always--boarded through both the front and rear doors. Again, they still successfully maintained their 25-minute turnarounds even in SIN, where they board in one of the main terminals through a single jetway (I was surprised they didn't operate out of the budget terminal in SIN).
- Here's the big one: as soon as boarding was complete, they shut the forward door and almost immediately began pushing back. There was none of what happens all too often on AS, where the pilots have to wait for 10 minutes for the paperwork to be brought down from the gate before door closure and then sitting for 10 more minutes waiting for the bags to finish loading and the ground crews to get around to hooking up the tug to push the aircraft back and then starting up the APU and disconnecting ground power and air and all that.
There's so much waiting on AS after the last person boards that just doesn't go on at AirAsia (or even other domestic carriers). I know comparing AS to AK is not a perfect comparison, but really, I'd say there's at least 20 minutes of inefficiency and waiting that could be eliminated at AS if their processes were streamlined. Now, I'm not a ramp agent and thus not an expert, but I have personally seen it done, so I know it's possible.
Here are two interesting notes:
From the AirAsia blog (pictures at the linked page):
As the aeroplane curved into the parking bay and a block of chock saddled to the front tires, the clock starts ticking for the 25 minutes turnaround.
25 Minutes Turnaround means, it takes 25 minutes for an aircraft from the moment of arrival to depart to the next destination.
It's one of the practice of AirAsia berhad in order to operate as Low Cost Carrier.
What actually happen in the 25 minutes time?
First, you will hear the boarding announcement being made for your departure.
As people queue for boarding, arrival passengers begin to disembark from the plane.
At the same moment, "new" set of pilots and cabin crews will get onto the aircraft and the previous set will step down.
The "new" set of cabin crews for your destination on the way to the parking bay.
The cargo that just arrived is offloaded and your luggage along with the other passengers' will be lifted onto the cargo hold.
And if you have ordered Snack Attack for your meal on board, your orders are also being lifted by the special Snack Attack delivery truck.
And boarding begins.
All these actions and activities happen in the first 15 minutes of the 25 minutes turnaround.
At 10 minutes before departure, the gates are close for boarding.
Pilots finalizes the load sheet and as airplane doors are close, get the engines ready for the next destination.
25 Minutes Turnaround means, it takes 25 minutes for an aircraft from the moment of arrival to depart to the next destination.
It's one of the practice of AirAsia berhad in order to operate as Low Cost Carrier.
What actually happen in the 25 minutes time?
First, you will hear the boarding announcement being made for your departure.
As people queue for boarding, arrival passengers begin to disembark from the plane.
At the same moment, "new" set of pilots and cabin crews will get onto the aircraft and the previous set will step down.
The "new" set of cabin crews for your destination on the way to the parking bay.
The cargo that just arrived is offloaded and your luggage along with the other passengers' will be lifted onto the cargo hold.
And if you have ordered Snack Attack for your meal on board, your orders are also being lifted by the special Snack Attack delivery truck.
And boarding begins.
All these actions and activities happen in the first 15 minutes of the 25 minutes turnaround.
At 10 minutes before departure, the gates are close for boarding.
Pilots finalizes the load sheet and as airplane doors are close, get the engines ready for the next destination.
AirAsia operates with the world’s lowest unit cost of US$0.023/ASK and a passenger break-even load factor of 52%. It has hedged 100% of its fuel requirements for the next three years, achieves an aircraft turnaround time of 25 minutes, has a crew productivity level that is triple that of Malaysia Airlines and achieves an average aircraft utilisation rate of 13 hours a day.
Oct 10, 2010, 9:55 pm
#34
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I rarely fit my bag under my seat, especially if I have only one bag. I'm a taller person and that's space I need for my feet.
Originally Posted by dabears1020
I think the real problem is the very common problem of people not putting their bags under their seat when it fits. The only time I will ever put my bag in the overheard bin is if the flight is half full and bin space isn't even remotely a question. It's just a common courtesy that a lot of people don't seem to have.
Oct 10, 2010, 10:10 pm
#35
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I never have more than one carry-on anyway.
Oct 11, 2010, 1:50 am
#37
Join Date: May 2006
Location: TUS/PDX
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You know, you can pull the bag out and stick it up against your seat when the plane is in the air. Plenty of room for your legs. I do it all the time.
Oct 11, 2010, 6:02 am
#38
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Oct 11, 2010, 12:16 pm
#39
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I always seem to loose something when I do that... 
Not a good solution for me
Not a good solution for me
Oct 11, 2010, 2:55 pm
#41
Join Date: Sep 2009
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The most perfect solution is of course to not fly. Second would be to not carry anything at all on board. Third would be to have surgery done to shorten legs.
ymmv
ymmv
Oct 11, 2010, 4:26 pm
#42
Join Date: Jan 2008
Programs: AS MVPG, CO, NW(now DL), Flying Blue
Posts: 6,554
It's hard for anyone to say that it was the direct or sole result of anything; however, the fact is that boarding time went from 30 minutes published to 40 minutes published, which basically means that AS was finding 30 minutes wasn't enough - is this partially because of all of the extra bags? Is this partially because AS isn't good at enforcing a boarding order? I'm not sure AS even knows...but the fact is that they added 10 minutes to their ground time for every plane, every flight. Multiplied x the entire fleet, that's a lot of time. Time that a 737 sits on the ground is time that costs AS money. If the economy picks up, and AS wants to add more routes/service, that 10 minutes x every flight is going to end up meaning they need a bigger fleet to do it...
I don't know what the industry standard is for a 737; and I've never flown WN...but I've been told that WN's boarding process is more efficient than AS, and that they can turn around a plane pretty quickly...
It has not only become more common, it is now published on each and every boarding pass - the standard boarding time for an AS 737 is 40 minutes prior to take off.
The incentive for AS is as above...more efficient boarding time = more efficient use of planes and crew time = higher profitability, and potentially the ability to squeeze out an extra flight out of some aircraft here and there. I'm with you, I like the fact that the on-time performance is better, but my question is, did it come at the expense of overall fleet efficiency? And what happens when an inbound aircraft is delayed? Can AS make up any of that time on the ground, or do we need 40 minutes to board a 737?
I don't know what the industry standard is for a 737; and I've never flown WN...but I've been told that WN's boarding process is more efficient than AS, and that they can turn around a plane pretty quickly...
It has not only become more common, it is now published on each and every boarding pass - the standard boarding time for an AS 737 is 40 minutes prior to take off.
The incentive for AS is as above...more efficient boarding time = more efficient use of planes and crew time = higher profitability, and potentially the ability to squeeze out an extra flight out of some aircraft here and there. I'm with you, I like the fact that the on-time performance is better, but my question is, did it come at the expense of overall fleet efficiency? And what happens when an inbound aircraft is delayed? Can AS make up any of that time on the ground, or do we need 40 minutes to board a 737?
Oct 12, 2010, 10:56 pm
#43
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: BLI
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Posts: 3,193
It could be that AS added the 10 minutes to pad their on time ratings I dont know. I do know that the flights Ive been on the 10 extra minutes really isnt needed. Genarlly everyone is boarded and we are ready to go 10 or 15 minutes before we are scheduled to leave anyhow, even on the full flights in and out of ORD. Which to me is a legitimate argument to those wanting a pre departure beverage in F. The padded time does make a lot of sense at places like ORD although I think they were doing it there for quite a while since if you miss the time slot there you can sit around quite a while waiting for another chance to leave. Its pretty absurd they preboard 40 minutes at FAI or even ANC half the time. Then you sit there 20 minutes with the plane already loaded. When the winds are blowing the right way you literally spend more time on the ground in your seat at FAI than it takes to fly from FAI to ANC. I do see what you are saying though if they go back to full fleet optimization the 40 minute time windows have to go back to 30 or they would need extra aircraft just for that. OT but Ive always wondered if that route would even be profitable at the high frequency 1/3 to 2/3 full pax loads if they werent subsidized with a lot of cargo and goldstreak
I can say with absolute certainty that the real reason for the extra ten minutes for boarding (which finally appeared on boarding passes, but has been in effect for a lot longer on the first flights on the day) is to ensure that the first flight of the day departs on schedule, so there are no downstream delays later in the day. And transcons have frequently boarded earlier than stated times on the boarding passes for similar reasons.
Oct 13, 2010, 1:18 am
#44
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11
Once again disregarding the paying customer is what this tells me since sitting 4 or 5 rows away from their bags is one of the effects. The primary reason I left ErrorCanada (AC) years and years ago.
Given they don't serve meals why not reconfigure the galley for their bags to be stored?
Given they don't serve meals why not reconfigure the galley for their bags to be stored?
Crew bags spread through out the cabin would make it easier for someone to slip anything into our bags without us realizing it, as well as removing an item.
Emergency equipment and crew stowage areas are provided on every aircraft at every airline. I such locations. I am sorry you were frustrated by the lack of space around your seat. I keep a sharpie in my pocket and usually write down the bin number on your boarding pass, as an instant reminder for deplaning whare your articles are.
Thanks for letting me share.
Oct 13, 2010, 1:29 am
#45
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11
I think the real problem is the very common problem of people not putting their bags under their seat when it fits. The only time I will ever put my bag in the overheard bin is if the flight is half full and bin space isn't even remotely a question. It's just a common courtesy that a lot of people don't seem to have.