FYI AS moved at ORD

Old Apr 20, 10, 1:30 am
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FYI AS moved at ORD

ok so I guess AS moved at ORD. A while back I recall commenting on how the magazine showed L2B and L1 as AS gates. Evidentally and obviously theyve moved to L1. The flight board move to across from L1. The kiosk moved to between L1 and L3 and the gate is now L1. So if you are like me and roll to L2B to see no kiosk, no AS logos, and no AS flight board.....dont be stressed out like me. Just walk another 20 feet further right past the old DL crown room and look to your left
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Old Apr 20, 10, 1:34 am
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Originally Posted by ANC View Post
ok so I guess AS moved at ORD. A while back I recall commenting on how the magazine showed L2B and L1 as AS gates. Evidentally and obviously theyve moved to L1. The flight board move to across from L1. The kiosk moved to between L1 and L3 and the gate is now L1. So if you are like me and roll to L2B to see no kiosk, no AS logos, and no AS flight board.....dont be stressed out like me. Just walk another 20 feet further right past the old DL crown room and look to your left
Here I was hoping it moved near the DL SC (Old NW WC)... oh well

Thanks for the heads up Wonder why the move since its so close to the original location?
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Old Apr 20, 10, 1:40 am
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Originally Posted by beckoa View Post
Here I was hoping it moved near the DL SC (Old NW WC)... oh well

Thanks for the heads up Wonder why the move since its so close to the original location?
MQ/AA is slowly starting to use some of those gates down that way too. I know that crown room was a hole in the wall but we can only hope maybe AS will put a board room in there . While small it would be better than nothing
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Old Apr 20, 10, 1:44 am
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Originally Posted by ANC View Post
MQ/AA is slowly starting to use some of those gates down that way too. I know that crown room was a hole in the wall but we can only hope maybe AS will put a board room in there . While small it would be better than nothing
I'd rather them open one up in OGG first

But that is a nice space that could be used... I know there was speculation of AA using it as they move more gates there... but they charge for everything but the bathroom
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Old Apr 20, 10, 11:14 am
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Originally Posted by beckoa View Post
I'd rather them open one up in OGG first
Or SJC... Do you think AS and DL could do a cooperative agreement where both airlines would invest in a new lounge and the airline that pays more will get to brand the lounge?

I.E. If it costs $10 million and AS coughs up $7.5 and DL gives $2.5 then it will be branded as an AS BR...

This would be make many SJC regulars happy, so I would imagine DL would like to have some kind of lounge there and would pay some to have AS open a new one rather than AS adding SJC to their AA Admirals Club agreement.
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Old Apr 20, 10, 5:51 pm
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AS's move to L1 was to accommodate American Connection's (Chatauqua) move from STL to ORD, which took place early April. L2 has now been split into a/b/c and eventually d for the smaller planes and that area is the new American Connection. Would be sweet if they put an Admiral's Club in the old SC location.
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Old Apr 21, 10, 1:12 pm
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I think alaska is going to need a much, much bigger presence in ORD before they'd even consider their own board room. I've brought it up at gold lunches and it doesn't appear remotely feasible. I'm sure the costs of using the admiral lounge is dirt cheap compared to that idea. Infact, I have never really seen another Alaska pax using it....but its so big I can't say id even know if they did.

I guess i will be through there in 2 weeks so I will make sure i walk all the way to L1...how about you ANC?
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Old Apr 21, 10, 2:27 pm
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I think alaska is going to need a much, much bigger presence in ORD before they'd even consider their own board room.
Realistically, AS would have to expand ORD service out of non-hubs to beef up their presence in ORD (probably starting some combination of AUS, SJC, SFO or LAX-ORD). I just don't see a combination of SEA/PDX/ANC-ORD having enough traffic to sustain a Board Room, even if AS just dumped more capacity JUST on those routes. That's kind of declaring war on a major codeshare partner, and it would probably lose buckets of money, since AA would likely fight back- plus there's the matter of gate utilization. As VX could tell you, AA and UA don't exactly welcome competitors to ORD with open arms and friendly grins.
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Old Apr 21, 10, 2:56 pm
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
Realistically, AS would have to expand ORD service out of non-hubs to beef up their presence in ORD (probably starting some combination of AUS, SJC, SFO or LAX-ORD). I just don't see a combination of SEA/PDX/ANC-ORD having enough traffic to sustain a Board Room, even if AS just dumped more capacity JUST on those routes. That's kind of declaring war on a major codeshare partner, and it would probably lose buckets of money, since AA would likely fight back- plus there's the matter of gate utilization. As VX could tell you, AA and UA don't exactly welcome competitors to ORD with open arms and friendly grins.
So how much service is required to sustain a BR presence? Both OGG and SJC have seen increases to flights to those destinations and neither have a lounge available for use by a partner. Do they meet the requirements or is there not enough revenue there justify it?
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Old Apr 21, 10, 3:30 pm
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So how much service is required to sustain a BR presence? Both OGG and SJC have seen increases to flights to those destinations and neither have a lounge available for use by a partner. Do they meet the requirements or is there not enough revenue there justify it?
Dunno. Ask RASMguy.

The thing about OGG is it's Hawaii (read:leisure destination with few biz pax, no connecting traffic- two of the major reasons to have a lounge). Why would you stay in a BR when you could spend time in Hawaii outside of the airport during your vacation? Is the soup really THAT good?

SJC makes marginally more sense (though there still isn't likely to be much connecting traffic- where would you connect to or from an AS flight in SJC instead of PDX/SEA?), but they are still finishing up their terminal remodel. Maybe someone should poke around and see if there's someplace where a BR could go...
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Old Apr 21, 10, 3:47 pm
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
Dunno. Ask RASMguy.

The thing about OGG is it's Hawaii (read:leisure destination with few biz pax, no connecting traffic- two of the major reasons to have a lounge). Why would you stay in a BR when you could spend time in Hawaii outside of the airport during your vacation? Is the soup really THAT good?
In Hawaii, it takes bags a little longer to arrive then on the mainland IME... so a quick stop in the BR could be justified

Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
SJC makes marginally more sense (though there still isn't likely to be much connecting traffic- where would you connect to or from an AS flight in SJC instead of PDX/SEA?), but they are still finishing up their terminal remodel. Maybe someone should poke around and see if there's someplace where a BR could go...
SJC-AUS... but I see your point- its not a place where many pax are waiting for a connection... - for OGG I'd be happy with a setup similar to what HA offers (and AQ did) with a room accessible with a number, yielding free wifi, POG, and a couple snacks...
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Old Apr 21, 10, 4:08 pm
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SJC-AUS.
Yeah, but what's more likely to work for timing and frequency: BOI-SJC-AUS, or BOI-SEA/PDX-AUS?

for OGG I'd be happy with a setup similar to what HA offers (and AQ did) with a room accessible with a number, yielding free wifi, POG, and a couple snacks...
I suppose, but I just don't see it adding much revenue. I'd surmise that a lounge in OGG is like the people asking for extra hours in the ANC BR: basically turns it into a free bar for people waiting who'd be waiting anyway, doesn't actually add to AS's bottom line in BR subscribers.

One might note that the HNL lounge offerings are pretty pedestrian:

http://www.loungeguide.net/wiki/u/Ho...residents_Club
http://www.loungeguide.net/wiki/u/Ho...Lines_Sky_Club
http://www.loungeguide.net/wiki/u/Ho...ed_Carpet_Club
http://www.loungeguide.net/wiki/u/Ho...as_Qantas_Club

Again, I think it's because you have better places to be than in airports when you're in Hawaii, so they just don't bother trying very hard to make the clubs good.
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Old Apr 21, 10, 4:29 pm
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Originally Posted by beckoa View Post
So how much service is required to sustain a BR presence? Both OGG and SJC have seen increases to flights to those destinations and neither have a lounge available for use by a partner. Do they meet the requirements or is there not enough revenue there justify it?
Don't get me wrong, I love lounges, I have had a membership 2 years running now (since i started flying basically), but I can't even come up with a good reason as to why an airline would even want to own and operate a lounge in the first place. Nobody flies paid first class. Even if a subset of those will actually visit a lounge and wouldn't have bought the ticket otherwise, that couldn't possibly be paying the bills. Charging $275 a year, and assuming every MVP Gold bought a lounge membership, you have a paltry $13M-$15M/year in gross revenue. No idea how to guess daypass revenue. It seems like with rent, alcohol, food, partner lounge payouts, etc. maybe you could make a little bit of money.

Maybe simply having a Board Room attracts high end customers to the airline and for people to join memberships that they wont really end up using during time constraints. It seems also that putting a BR at the end of a spoke (where people aren't having to sit around, waiting for a connection) frequented by casual vacationers would also be of little financial benefit.

It seems that another purpose would be to bill out when a partner airline customer visits, and set up camp in some place where those partners would be compelled to visit (and wouldn't be in violation of whatever agreements were signed), and watch some revenue trickle in. An airline would want to probably setup agreements with international carriers that do not have a very strong presence in that particular BR city.

If I had to guess how an airline would decide using a partner lounge vs. O&O board room, I think it would be (forecasted) costs for the partner lounge exceeding the costs of operating a board room for many years running, also be in a location where someone would be most likely to want/use it (ie, mid-connection), and/or frequented by business travelers that need a quiet oasis of food/internet/telephone/fax/etc. Then it would make sense to lease expensive airport space, pay whatever million(s) for improvements, hire on experienced and friendly employees, and cover whatever other operating costs there are.

I really doubt OGG would be on the list (Last time I was there, Alaska was still contracting a lot out for airport services to United/etc), but SJC .. maybe.. i'd imagine if there was a partner lounge already there, that would be the natural first step.
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Old Apr 21, 10, 4:38 pm
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Originally Posted by maokh View Post
SJC .. maybe.. i'd imagine if there was a partner lounge already there, that would be the natural first step.
There is an AA AC at SJC, but in a different terminal... AS will be in B while the AC is in A. I wouldn't be surprised if the AC closes in due time...
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Old Apr 21, 10, 6:13 pm
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Originally Posted by golfingboy View Post
There is an AA AC at SJC, but in a different terminal... AS will be in B while the AC is in A. I wouldn't be surprised if the AC closes in due time...
And it is over a quarter a mile walk away from terminal B(according to the SJC warning to those who fly WN out of gate 18 to SAN). I am all for the BR, and wonder if they could see an increase in customers there (from what would be if they built one this minute), because it would be used by AS and DL (AA if they close theirs), and maybe some of the golds would buy memberships because of the new lines that may happen. Terminal C is a cake walk for security, so most all of the golds (that I see) show up 20 minutes before boarding. However, if security turns out to be a nightmare, and there is a BR available, it may be realistic to fork over the money so you can have a BR to hang out in, plus you'd have one on both the SJC/SEA ends. If I didn't have to live in the SEA BR every week I wouldn't see much use for the membership because I can't use it half of the time (my SJC leg).
As for the "why have one in the first place" question, after watching the MSNBC special on AA where they laid out that on average they made 300 bucks in profit per plane load, I don't think there is anything in the airline industry where you make a windfall profit - except maybe baggage fees...
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