Insolvency claim for miles possible, 0.33 eurocents per mile [edited]
May 4, 2018, 11:34 am
#46
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zurich
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It looks like the investor is not making the payments necessary for the take over and Topbonus Ltd is going into liquidation: Vielfliegerprogramm | topbonus
As I stated earlier on, going after Etihad on the basis of extracting finds and thus creating insolvency is far more promising, at least in most jurisdictions. Not sure why the German authorities turn a blind eye on this ...
As I stated earlier on, going after Etihad on the basis of extracting finds and thus creating insolvency is far more promising, at least in most jurisdictions. Not sure why the German authorities turn a blind eye on this ...
May 4, 2018, 4:31 pm
#47
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Berlin, TXL
Programs: OW Emerald, *A gold, Skyteam elite plus, Hilton gold, SPG gold
Posts: 339
Dear Prof. Dr Huth,
Unfortunately, I have to inform you that I had to close down the business operations of topbonus Ltd. as a precautionary measure. The reason for this is, that the investor has not yet been able to raise the necessary financing to continue business operations.Before signing the purchase agreement, the investor had presented a letter-of-credit issued by a reputable bank for a double-digit million euro amount. After the contract had been signed, however, the bank apparently withdrew the letter-of-credit. I was not informed about this issue and the investor only admitted after repeated requests that he is unable to pay.Although the investor still has a few days to make the outstanding payments, this is unlikely to happen. Moreover, there has been no other prospective buyer to date. Insolvency law provides in such a case for the mandatory closure of business operations in order not to harm creditors by continuing the business without any prospects of success.The planned restructuring of topbonus based on an insolvency plan is not possible without the confirmed financing of the investor. The insolvency court has already cancelled the discussion- and voting appointment for the insolvency plan.
As the insolvency plan, which I had prepared, can no longer be implemented, thus the restructuring of topbonus via insolvency plan proceedings cannot be continued at the moment. Subsequently, the insolvency proceedings will continue as a regular liquidation process. Earning and redeeming miles remains suspended. The topbonus website will be taken offline soon.
As a miles-creditor of the topbonus program, you still have the opportunity to file your insolvency claims with the insolvency administrator. If a subsequent registration is made by 15 May 2018 at the latest, it can still be examined free of charge during the judicial examination on 16 May 2018. Claims filed later than this date, however, will incur court fees. If you have not yet lodged any claims, I advise you to do so by 15 May 2018 at the latest. You can still use the website https://topbonus.insolvenz-solution.de which was set up for this purpose.Yours sincerely,
Christian Otto
Insolvency administrator
Latest news from Topbonus
Unfortunately, I have to inform you that I had to close down the business operations of topbonus Ltd. as a precautionary measure. The reason for this is, that the investor has not yet been able to raise the necessary financing to continue business operations.Before signing the purchase agreement, the investor had presented a letter-of-credit issued by a reputable bank for a double-digit million euro amount. After the contract had been signed, however, the bank apparently withdrew the letter-of-credit. I was not informed about this issue and the investor only admitted after repeated requests that he is unable to pay.Although the investor still has a few days to make the outstanding payments, this is unlikely to happen. Moreover, there has been no other prospective buyer to date. Insolvency law provides in such a case for the mandatory closure of business operations in order not to harm creditors by continuing the business without any prospects of success.The planned restructuring of topbonus based on an insolvency plan is not possible without the confirmed financing of the investor. The insolvency court has already cancelled the discussion- and voting appointment for the insolvency plan.
As the insolvency plan, which I had prepared, can no longer be implemented, thus the restructuring of topbonus via insolvency plan proceedings cannot be continued at the moment. Subsequently, the insolvency proceedings will continue as a regular liquidation process. Earning and redeeming miles remains suspended. The topbonus website will be taken offline soon.
As a miles-creditor of the topbonus program, you still have the opportunity to file your insolvency claims with the insolvency administrator. If a subsequent registration is made by 15 May 2018 at the latest, it can still be examined free of charge during the judicial examination on 16 May 2018. Claims filed later than this date, however, will incur court fees. If you have not yet lodged any claims, I advise you to do so by 15 May 2018 at the latest. You can still use the website https://topbonus.insolvenz-solution.de which was set up for this purpose.Yours sincerely,
Christian Otto
Insolvency administrator
Latest news from Topbonus
May 5, 2018, 6:21 am
#48
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 939
I got this message too and I have no idea what it means. I filed a claim, was told it equated to about 40 euros. Is this saying that claim will not be paid? Or I need to file again? Or on my own? Or just pointing out that others can file by May 15th? What a waste of time.
May 5, 2018, 8:05 am
#49
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SOF
Programs: A3 Gold, IHG Platinum, Marriott Silver
Posts: 849
I got this message too and I have no idea what it means. I filed a claim, was told it equated to about 40 euros. Is this saying that claim will not be paid? Or I need to file again? Or on my own? Or just pointing out that others can file by May 15th? What a waste of time.
May 5, 2018, 9:29 am
#50
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Berlin, TXL
Programs: OW Emerald, *A gold, Skyteam elite plus, Hilton gold, SPG gold
Posts: 339
It means that the investor didn't come thru so now the German court system will decided if you get pay and how much your miles are worth. I have low expectations regarding the future of Topbonus and or any type of payments
May 5, 2018, 2:58 pm
#51
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SOF
Programs: A3 Gold, IHG Platinum, Marriott Silver
Posts: 849
That part is clear. What is unclear is the deadline of May 15th. Is that deadline applicable to all Topbonus members or only for those who didn't submit a claim previously - by April 24th, I believe. That's the issue. If I need to submit another claim, I'd like to know. I'm also doubtful I will see any money out of it but I'd like to be registered just in case something does happen. I certainly don't want to wait and take action after May 15th if there are extra costs involved - moreover, I'm not familiar with German law and how that process works.
May 5, 2018, 3:07 pm
#52
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
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Posts: 50,262
The sole value of the program to an investor is so-called "goodwill" e.g., the ability to attract customers (passengers) to something. Otherwise, why on earth would any investor throw good money after bad?
It appears that they can't make it work, so the potential investors are out and now there are no funds. It certainly makes sense to file a claim before 15 May, because there is always the remote chance that something may come of it. Paying court fees makes little sense because one is likely paying for something that will return nothing.
In other such transactions, the carrier taking over operations keeps the old loyalty program, because it is a source of new business. But, here there is no New AB, thus no loyalty to build.
It appears that they can't make it work, so the potential investors are out and now there are no funds. It certainly makes sense to file a claim before 15 May, because there is always the remote chance that something may come of it. Paying court fees makes little sense because one is likely paying for something that will return nothing.
In other such transactions, the carrier taking over operations keeps the old loyalty program, because it is a source of new business. But, here there is no New AB, thus no loyalty to build.
May 5, 2018, 5:09 pm
#53
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Berlin, TXL
Programs: OW Emerald, *A gold, Skyteam elite plus, Hilton gold, SPG gold
Posts: 339
That part is clear. What is unclear is the deadline of May 15th. Is that deadline applicable to all Topbonus members or only for those who didn't submit a claim previously - by April 24th, I believe. That's the issue. If I need to submit another claim, I'd like to know. I'm also doubtful I will see any money out of it but I'd like to be registered just in case something does happen. I certainly don't want to wait and take action after May 15th if there are extra costs involved - moreover, I'm not familiar with German law and how that process works.
the original date date line was may 16, 2018
May 5, 2018, 5:12 pm
#54
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Berlin, TXL
Programs: OW Emerald, *A gold, Skyteam elite plus, Hilton gold, SPG gold
Posts: 339
The sole value of the program to an investor is so-called "goodwill" e.g., the ability to attract customers (passengers) to something. Otherwise, why on earth would any investor throw good money after bad?
It appears that they can't make it work, so the potential investors are out and now there are no funds. It certainly makes sense to file a claim before 15 May, because there is always the remote chance that something may come of it. Paying court fees makes little sense because one is likely paying for something that will return nothing.
In other such transactions, the carrier taking over operations keeps the old loyalty program, because it is a source of new business. But, here there is no New AB, thus no loyalty to build.
It appears that they can't make it work, so the potential investors are out and now there are no funds. It certainly makes sense to file a claim before 15 May, because there is always the remote chance that something may come of it. Paying court fees makes little sense because one is likely paying for something that will return nothing.
In other such transactions, the carrier taking over operations keeps the old loyalty program, because it is a source of new business. But, here there is no New AB, thus no loyalty to build.
the court procedures were schedule for May 16, 2018 at the Chatlottenburg court in Berlin
May 13, 2018, 1:47 pm
#55
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As I read this thread, I'm wondering how easy it would be for a German court to collect the 13.5 M.