Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Discontinued Programs/Partners > airberlin | topbonus
Reload this Page >

TXL-AUH cancellations -re-protection guidelines for AB tickets

TXL-AUH cancellations -re-protection guidelines for AB tickets

Old Sep 1, 17, 9:02 am
  #1  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: Gold: A3, KL Silver: AZ, BA
Posts: 23,956
TXL-AUH cancellations -re-protection guidelines for AB tickets

airberlin has published this note for the travel industry, regarding the cancellation of flights between TXL and AUH. Etihad has already published rebooking guidelines for pax on Etihad tickets; this is the first time I have seen mention of AB re-protection guidelines.


Re-protection guidelines for AB Tickets

Dear Sales Partner,

We would like to inform you that we are going to cancel flights between Berlin and Abu Dhabi (TXL-AUH-TXL) from September 14 and October 1, 2017 onwards:
  1. AB7492 - Flight cancelled from September 14,2017
  2. AB7495 Flight cancelled from September 15, 2017
  3. AB7493 Flight cancelled from September 30 2017
  4. AB7494 Flight cancelled from October 01 2017

The re-protection policy below applies to passengers with an AB (745) ticket, which includes one of the affected AB flights.


Re-protection policy for departures between September 14, 2017 and October 31,2017

Rebooking policy:
When available the flight can be rebooked onto the AB flights AB7493 / AB7494. Please note: if you are rebooking the flight on your own, make sure to rebook the flight in the lowest class available in the same cabin of the original booking.

If no availability is given on the direct TXL AUH v.v. flight, then tickets may be rebooked onto AB codeshare flight number via DUS/FRA/MUC/ZRH.

All tickets with TXL-AUH v.v. with onward flights from/to AUH may be rebooked onto AB codeshare flight number via DUS/FRA/MUC/ZRH so that connecting flight does not need to be amended.
Please note that in the last two cases only AB can process the rebooking and reissue the tickets.

Cancellation policy:
Tickets issued before August 15,2017 may not be refunded due to insolvency.
Tickets issued after August 15,2017 may be refunded via BSP by filling out the refund application form.


Re-protection policy for departures from November 1, 2017

No rebooking option with other airlines will be offered for tickets with return flights past November 1, 2017, due to insolvency. Etihad Airways has confirmed to rebook all Etihad Airways guests booked on airberlin operated flights from 1 November 2017. This concerns only tickets issued on EY stock (607).
Attached Images  
irishguy28 is offline  
Old Sep 3, 17, 3:46 am
  #2  
Fyd
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: SFO, MNL, SIN, HAM
Programs: UA GS, SQ PPS, IHG Plat Amb, Marriot Gold, Hilton Gold, Club Carlson Gold, Accor Plat
Posts: 468
Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
airberlin has published this note for the travel industry, regarding the cancellation of flights between TXL and AUH. Etihad has already published rebooking guidelines for pax on Etihad tickets; this is the first time I have seen mention of AB re-protection guidelines.


Re-protection policy for departures from November 1, 2017

No rebooking option with other airlines will be offered for tickets with return flights past November 1, 2017, due to insolvency. Etihad Airways has confirmed to rebook all Etihad Airways guests booked on airberlin operated flights from 1 November 2017. This concerns only tickets issued on EY stock (607).
I'm on an AB flight AUH-TXL in November, just talked to AB customer service and they claimed that passengers will be rebooked.
Based on your letter, that was a bold-faced lie...
It's kinda shocking that Alitalia is handling it's insolvency smoothly and AB is total chaos...
Fyd is offline  
Old Sep 3, 17, 7:51 am
  #3  
Original Member
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: New York, NY, USA
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT
Posts: 11,501
Originally Posted by Fyd View Post
It's kinda shocking that Alitalia is handling it's insolvency smoothly and AB is total chaos...
How so?
seawolf is offline  
Old Sep 3, 17, 10:51 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 7,820
Because Alitalia has always been an utter basket case, for as long as I've known it, and airberlin is German and should be run a bit more like things in Germany are. But don't let's get started on BER airport, the Elbphilharmonie, Stuttgart Bahnhof, und so weiter. I find this whole thing almost completely unbelievable.
Concerto is offline  
Old Sep 4, 17, 12:56 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: HKG
Posts: 1,099
AUH flights are being intermittently cancelled in the past 2 days. My flight was cancelled and they initially rebooked me for the same flight next day (depart 24 hours later). Are my EU261 rights being 600 euros for the 24 hour late departure?

Since my flight was EY-ticketed, EY rebooked me to another city a day later (48 hours after my original departure). Would that impact my EU261? I have travel insurance for the trip but wondering whether AB is liable for my accommodation for at least 1 night (probably a stretch to argue for the 2nd night)
hkskyline is offline  
Old Sep 4, 17, 1:50 am
  #6  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: Gold: A3, KL Silver: AZ, BA
Posts: 23,956
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Since my flight was EY-ticketed, EY rebooked me to another city a day later (48 hours after my original departure). Would that impact my EU261? I have travel insurance for the trip but wondering whether AB is liable for my accommodation for at least 1 night (probably a stretch to argue for the 2nd night)
If you are on an EY ticket, you should be talking to EY. They will rebook you on an EY flight from any other German city on the day you were originally supposed to depart [see page 2 of the document linked above].

Call Etihad (or, if booked via an agency, that agent) and tell them you are travelling on an Etihad-issued ticket.
irishguy28 is offline  
Old Sep 4, 17, 2:49 am
  #7  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: HKG
Posts: 1,099
Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
If you are on an EY ticket, you should be talking to EY. They will rebook you on an EY flight from any other German city on the day you were originally supposed to depart [see page 2 of the document linked above].

Call Etihad (or, if booked via an agency, that agent) and tell them you are travelling on an Etihad-issued ticket.
Yep. EY took care of me and directed me to another port. But I think AB is still liable for their cancellation and subject to EU261 even though EY rebooked me, is that correct?

I tried to get EY to provide hotel since the rebooked flight meant I'm stuck in AUH for 2 nights but they said claim AB.
hkskyline is offline  
Old Sep 4, 17, 3:07 am
  #8  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: Gold: A3, KL Silver: AZ, BA
Posts: 23,956
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Yep. EY took care of me and directed me to another port. But I think AB is still liable for their cancellation and subject to EU261 even though EY rebooked me, is that correct?

I tried to get EY to provide hotel since the rebooked flight meant I'm stuck in AUH for 2 nights but they said claim AB.
AB are in insolvency proceedings and therefore, if any valid EC261/2004 claim could be lodged, then you would just be another creditor who likely would never see any money.

If you think you have a case, then I would advise you to seek the assistance of one of the claims agencies - though I doubt any of them will take on new AB cases at this time, given current circumstances.

Why couldn't Etihad send you home on the date you wanted? Why is there a 2-day delay in Abu Dhabi? Ask to be booked to any other city in Germany (if Germany is your end point) on the date of travel and ask for a Rail&Fly ticket to get you home. Or to any airport in Europe, from where you can add your own one-way ticket home if necessary (and probably cheaper than paying for two night's hotel in Abu Dhabi out of your own pocket).
irishguy28 is offline  
Old Sep 4, 17, 6:02 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: IHG Plat, Accor gold, M&M FTL, BA Blue, QR Gold, A3 *Gold
Posts: 1,525
Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
AB are in insolvency proceedings and therefore, if any valid EC261/2004 claim could be lodged, then you would just be another creditor who likely would never see any money.
No, as his claim arises from AB trading after filing, he would be a preferential creditor. Just like the German govt. and their loan.
tom tulpe is online now  
Old Sep 4, 17, 6:31 am
  #10  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: Gold: A3, KL Silver: AZ, BA
Posts: 23,956
Originally Posted by tom tulpe View Post
No, as his claim arises from AB trading after filing, he would be a preferential creditor. Just like the German govt. and their loan.
And is it guaranteed that all preferential creditors receive full repayment?

I'm sure that the German government will be first in line, but I don't expect that all such creditors will see their claims honoured in full.
irishguy28 is offline  
Old Sep 4, 17, 6:40 am
  #11  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PVG, FRA, SEA, HEL
Programs: UA Premier Gold
Posts: 3,183
No rebooking option with other airlines will be offered for tickets with return flights past November 1, 2017, due to insolvency
Wow! This is really, really bad.
All passengers with AB tickets for flights from Nov TXL-AUH-XXX will have lost the money and got no ticket anymore.
warakorn is offline  
Old Sep 4, 17, 6:53 am
  #12  
Original Member
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: New York, NY, USA
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT
Posts: 11,501
Originally Posted by tom tulpe View Post
No, as his claim arises from AB trading after filing, he would be a preferential creditor. Just like the German govt. and their loan.
Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
And is it guaranteed that all preferential creditors receive full repayment?

I'm sure that the German government will be first in line, but I don't expect that all such creditors will see their claims honoured in full.
I prefix this by saying I don't know how this works in Germany.

But isn't the point of the government bridge loan to allow AB to operate? Does the term of the loan include EC261/2004 claims as part of operations? If not, then EC261/2004 claimholders will have to get in line but if it included in the terms of the loan, then it would be paid out courtesy of German government.
seawolf is offline  
Old Sep 4, 17, 8:03 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 7,820
I am still really gob smacked that this sort of thing can go on in Germany. I mean, I really like Germany and living here along with so many things the country has to offer, but I have also seen a good number of things here in recent years that I really don't understand. I respect the draconian tax system and dutifully spend ages doing a detailed declaration each year, but wow, talk about stifling creativity with all that paperwork, which for me is lost good time.

As far as similar situations go, the Swissair bankruptcy in 2001 was very messy and left loads of people stranded. But I have the impression they got their act together very quickly indeed and everything went ok after a few days. I was in the middle of it and the credit card company immediately reimbursed all lost tickets. Even the mileage programme, which is low priority now, was saved and continued.
Concerto is offline  
Old Sep 4, 17, 8:45 am
  #14  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PVG, FRA, SEA, HEL
Programs: UA Premier Gold
Posts: 3,183
In my eyes it is quite a scam to still issue tickets and use BSP-billing, while at the same time invalidating tickets from Nov 1 (for the TXL-AUH route first).

One could ask, whether EY could just take over those flights from Berlin (demand is there; yield should be ok) - but our Mutti Merkel together with her transport minister "Doofrind" is blocking access to TXL for EY/EK. Well, I know EK/EY could fly to Berlin, but only if they give up another German port.

I hope those people affect by these cancellations (without reimbursement) will vote their feet in 2 weeks during the general election.

This is my opinion.

Last edited by warakorn; Sep 4, 17 at 9:18 am
warakorn is offline  
Old Sep 4, 17, 9:17 am
  #15  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: Gold: A3, KL Silver: AZ, BA
Posts: 23,956
Originally Posted by warakorn View Post
One could ask, whether EY could just take over those flights from Berlin (demand is there; yield should be ok) - but our Mutti Merkel together with her transport minister "Doofrind" is blocking access to TXL for EY/EK. Well, I know EK/EY could fly to Berlin, but only if they give up another German port.
I don't think it's that simple. The current air services agreement between Germany and the United Arab Emirates limits the number of destinations that can be served. Both Etihad and Emirates are free to serve Berlin, if they like, but at the expense of dropping another city that they currently serve.

The agreement has been under review for some time but it is not reasonable to expect Germany to suddenly amend the existing agreement in light of the current troubles at airberlin - and particularly when there is no impediment to a German carrier from starting Berlin to UAE services [stated another way, it does not have to be Etihad - or Emirates - that re-starts a connection from Berlin to the UAE] You can be sure that Lufthansa is lobbying vigorously for such restrictions not to be loosened.

(While the text below mentions only Emirates, and is 6 years old, the content is still relevant and the same/similar constraints apply to Etihad, which is also an airline of the UAE)

Originally Posted by Flight Global
This agreement limits the airline's number of landing points in Germany to four. Emirates would be free to add Stuttgart and Berlin, said the spokesman, but would then need to give up two of its existing destinations. He added that the arrangement is based "on the size of the mutual home markets".

...

Although Emirates can only fly to four destinations within Germany but there are no limits to the frequency of flights or what model of aircraft is deployed. In other words, capacity is unlimited.
irishguy28 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread