warakorn

Thank you very much for pointing that out.

However, I fail to see what you are trying to convey here, because basically I said the same thing as you did.

irishguy28

I guess my point was this: the collapse of airberlin is not going to accelerate the negotiation of a new Germany-UAE air services agreement, nor an EU-UAE services agreement, nor is it likely to tilt the hand of the UAE carriers significantly in any such discussion; so the end of direct services from Berlin is not going to change anything.

Additionally, Lufthansa - despite their new sort-of-agreements with Etihad - would lobby hard against the further loosening of the air services agreement.

So, as you say, nothing will change on this front and to suggest that airberlin's demise will somehow lead to change - immediate or eventual - is a bit of a pipe dream.

Often1

Creditors of AB, including unserved ticket holders and those due EC 261/2004 compensation are simply in line with others of their similar priority. After all, but for AB's liabilities exceeding its assets, it would not be insolvent.

Whether those creditors get paid all, a portion of, or none of what they are owed, remains to be seen. That is all overseen by an administrator operating under court order.

The notion that the incumbent government will be tossed out on its ear because it will not overnight amend a carefully negotiated trade agreement to permit one carrier better access to one airport is not likely.

US credit card consumers (UK too) have 100% protection as to their ticket value, through processes outside of insolvency. Many travel insurance policies as well.

irishguy28

That is incorrect, as has been pointed out in other threads.

hkskyline

A few more details. My itinerary was HKG-AUH-TXL, with AUH-TXL on AB. The rest, including the return trip home to HKG, is on EY. AB leg was cancelled as I was en route from HKG-AUH. Landed in AUH, went to the EY ticketing counter, got the supervisor to search for alternative ports. All full due to Eid. Nothing available for LHR, DUS, MUC, FRA. Only available seats are 2 days later.

EY didn't offer me hotel accommodation for the extra 2 nights (in the midst of this extended stay now). Will head to the AB counter later tonight when they start checking in to see if I can get anything. Filed complaint on their website as per their instructions for compensation.

Ultimately, I wonder what responsibility does AB have? They should pay out EU261 due to the cancellation. They originally re-accommodated me on the next day's flight, 24 hours later, so that would be 600 euros? How about hotel and meals? EY won't pay up on these even though it is on their stock as they said chase the operating carrier.

I'm now accommodated on EY, leaving 48 hours later than my original AB flight, to a different port as per my choosing.

geosch

Just to understand: was your ticket issued by EY? Was your last leg (operated by AB) sold with an EY flight number (i.e. as a code share)? Then I find it very strange why EY did not at least provide you with accommodation at their expense. Anyway, I don't know the legal situation.
What's correct is that AB as the operator and being an EU airline is liable according to EU261. You are free to file a claim, but due to the insolvency situation it's very unlikely you will get any meaningful amount of money.

Concerto

Quoting my own rant here, but following on from it I wanted to share an interesting article which deals with the myth of German efficiency. It made for interesting reading in the current circumstances.

http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/2017...e-so-efficient

hkskyline

Correct. EY ticket all the way with codeshare on AB operating AUH-TXL.

Have filed a claim on the AB website's complaint section. Is there a EU website where I should file as well? Not used to this as I don't fly into EU that often.

The AB counters at AUH are staffed by EY. They issued meal vouchers and there was a remark at the top "credit to AB". EY is clearly removing themselves from responsibility here, so fingers crossed a fraction of EU261 will come back from AB eventually.

Is there a timing deadline on response/pay-out after the original departure date for EU261 claims?

warakorn

EC261 does not work for AB, because they are insolvent. You cannot enforce a court order.

The writing was in the wall. Why anyone would book an AB-operated (longhaul) flight this year, is beyond me?

irishguy28

They looked at the example of Alitalia, that other European airline cut lose by Etihad, which is adding destinations, and ]hiring staff, even while now entering their 4th month in administration/insolvency.

MultiFlyer

But Alitalia is a completely different story.
AB is in insolvency according to German law.
So no more money, refund, ...for any claim arising from a booking before 15.8.

irishguy28

Yes, it has now become crystal clear that things are handled completely differently in Germany than in Italy.

I am presumably not the only one that assumed things would flow at least as smoothly in Germany as in Italy!

MultiFlyer

I don't know the Italian law, but in Germany nothing similar to chapter 11 does exist.
The insolvency administrator has to follow strictly the legal requirements and therefore must enforce the current regulation.

oliver2002

AB is operating fairly normal, minus some contract lounge access and topbonus. They were losing 2 million € /day at the end, and no longer had a sustainable business case. By the end of the summer schedule they will cease to exist in their current form. I don't see any 'chaos'. Chaos would be if they had stopped flying and sent everyone home two weeks ago.

AZ is a interesting case study on how many times an airline can receive a restart. I doubt the new AZ that will emerge this year will survive for long and needs a restart again.

jonnyincali

Well, hopefully, this will them at least through Oct.