Air Berlin compensation?

Old Aug 29, 17, 6:29 pm
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Air Berlin compensation?

Hi, I got an e-mail from Air Berlin stating that I had to wait on the airline's compensation for 2 cancelled flights because the airline was being liquidated. Anyone else get it? Is it true??

Here is the bulk of the email:

We sincerely wish to apologize once again for any inconvenience caused by the flight disruption.

As you will certainly have heard, Air Berlin PLC & Co. Luftverkehrs KG (Air Berlin) has filed to commence insolvency proceedings under self-administration on August 15, 2017.

According to our documentation, you have filed a claim with us that has not yet been finalized.

Due to the requested insolvency proceedings, we are currently unable to attend to any demands that may arise from your claim.

You may assert your claim after commencement of the insolvency proceedings within the legally determined proceedings. For this purpose, you will receive a form by mail unsolicited at a later time. This form will also include information regarding the further process sequence.

We ask for your understanding that we are unable to make any further statements during the current proceedings or to process your claim at this time.

Yours sincerely,


Ms Carlotte Blick

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Old Aug 29, 17, 10:10 pm
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I'm sure it's true.
They're bankrupt.
Get in line with everyone else to whom they owe money!
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Old Aug 29, 17, 10:49 pm
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To make it clear - you will get nothing.
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Old Aug 31, 17, 9:54 am
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I'm now wondering if I'll actually get a refund. I was booked SFO - TXL - AMM in December, with the second flight operated on Air Jordinian. After they filed for insolvency and canceled the SFO - TXL route, they rerouted me via DUS and VIE, but I was scheduled to arrive in Vienna an hour after my connection flight was supposed to depart. This is obviously impossible. I was waiting to see what would come of it, and I got the following email:

-----

Dear Mr. Greenberg,,

Due to operational adjustments airberlin can no longer offer your flight service booked under reference [REFERENCE].

Unfortunately there are no convenient alternatives we can currently offer to replace this flight. Therefore we have arranged a free cancellation and refund of your flight booking so you can make alternative arrangements to suit your own specific requirements. Any additional service booking related to this flight will also be cancelled and refunded free of charge.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding during this time of transition. We hope in the future you can place your trust in us again under the airberlin and we look forward to welcoming you again aboard of one of our flights.

With best regards,

I. Riclea
Service Team airberlin group

-----

I wonder if this actually means I'll get a refund, or if it's just a form letter and that insolvency regulations will stop me from doing so. Any thoughts?

Either way, it looks like it's canceled. I believe my Chase Sapphire Reserve covers canceled flights due to insolvency. So I need to find a new flight now...
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Old Sep 1, 17, 1:42 am
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If you booked the flight after they filed for insolvency you should in theory get a refund.
If it was before you will get nothing and you would have to do a lodgement of a claim in insolvency proceedings.
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Old Sep 1, 17, 1:59 am
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Originally Posted by Lukeman87 View Post
Hi, I got an e-mail from Air Berlin stating that I had to wait on the airline's compensation for 2 cancelled flights because the airline was being liquidated. Anyone else get it? Is it true??
Yes, it's true. Airberlin notified that they would not be paying out any compensation while undergoing insolvency proceedings.
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Old Sep 1, 17, 5:38 am
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They should pay out for tickets bought after they had filed for insolvency (those clients are preferential creditors, just like the govt. are with their post-filing loan).

Those with tickes bought before Aug. 15th have to join the queue of creditors, and are unlikely to get anything.
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Old Sep 1, 17, 7:03 am
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Originally Posted by MultiFlyer View Post
If you booked the flight after they filed for insolvency you should in theory get a refund.
If it was before you will get nothing and you would have to do a lodgement of a claim in insolvency proceedings.
This is incorrect if the ticket was purchased with a credit card issued by a US or EU (and some other nations) bank. Both the US and EU protect such purchases and it is the card issuer which will make the refund from funds witheld from AB for just this purpose as its situation deteriorated.

This is why one should never purchase any future service with anything other than a credit card (not a debit card, wire transfer or other form of payment.

As to the OP's EC 261/2004 claim, it is simply a claim against AB which will sit in line with all other general creditors. The chances of ever seeing any payment are low and, if any is made, it will be a minute amount.

This is also a caution that if one encounters delays necessitating a hotel on AB which would ordinarily trigger a "duty of care" under the Regulation, either push for a voucher or understand that the chances of being reimbursed are between slim & nil.
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Old Sep 1, 17, 9:36 am
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
This is incorrect if the ticket was purchased with a credit card issued by a US or EU (and some other nations) bank. Both the US and EU protect such purchases and it is the card issuer which will make the refund from funds witheld from AB for just this purpose as its situation deteriorated.

This is why one should never purchase any future service with anything other than a credit card (not a debit card, wire transfer or other form of payment.

As to the OP's EC 261/2004 claim, it is simply a claim against AB which will sit in line with all other general creditors. The chances of ever seeing any payment are low and, if any is made, it will be a minute amount.

This is also a caution that if one encounters delays necessitating a hotel on AB which would ordinarily trigger a "duty of care" under the Regulation, either push for a voucher or understand that the chances of being reimbursed are between slim & nil.
You really should not make that sort of statement when you clearly have not much of a clue as to how German insolvency law and consumer protection law work.

Just for starters, it makes a difference whether you bought a ticket before or after the debtor filed for insolvency, and no there is no automatic protection for credit card payments in the EU (and certainly not in Germany).
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Old Sep 1, 17, 10:00 am
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Indeed, to state that the "EU protect(s) such purchases" is an incorrect assessment.

Each member state has its own consumer protection laws - there is no EU-level legislation.

In the UK, for instance, Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act would come into play here. You may be able to get a refund from the credit card issue - but NOT ALWAYS. If the flights cost less than 100, or if you bought from a travel agent rather than directly from the airline, then the credit card company is not legally obliged to refund you.

If anyone reading this thread thinks without having done their research that any (further) purchases on AB are safe if done by credit card - then I would advise you to consult the relevant legislation in your jurisdiction.
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Last edited by irishguy28; Sep 1, 17 at 10:08 am
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Old Sep 1, 17, 10:27 pm
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Making a blanket statement that tickets purchased by US credit cards are safe is irresponsible and not 100% accurate.

AFAIK US law provides protection for credit card purchases if disputed within 60 days of the statement date containing the charge to be disputed. If AB ticket was purchased outside that time frame, this protection offered by US law does not apply.

US law also allows consumer to withhold payment to credit card issuer provided certain conditions are met. One of which is payment have not been made. If you have already paid your credit card bill containing the AB charge, then this protection also does not apply.

This doesn't mean the credit card issuer may not be able to assist (e.g. Visa/MC/AMEX withhold current AB proceeds) but anything they can do would be beyond what is required by US regulations and by no means guaranteed.

Last edited by seawolf; Sep 2, 17 at 6:55 am
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Old Sep 2, 17, 12:01 am
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Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
Making a blanket statement that tickets purchased by US credit cards are safe is irresponsible and not 100% accurate.

AFAIK US law provides protection for credit card purchases if disputed within 60 days of the statement date containing the charge to be disputed. If AB ticket was purchased outside that time frame, this protection offered by US law does not apply.

US law also allows consumer to withhold payment to credit card issuer provided certain conditions are met. One of which is payment have not been made. If you have already paid your credit card bill containing the AB charge, then this protection also does not apply.

This doesn't mean the credit card issuer may not be able to assist (e.g. Visa/MC/AMEX withhold current AB proceeds) but anything they can do would be beyond what is required by US regulations and by no means guaranteed.
Visa (and MasterCard has similar policies) allow 120 days- the airline modifier extends it to the day the flight is scheduled (no more than 540 days)


Visa Reason Code Reason Code Description Time Limit
(Cardholder / Issuing Bank) Time Limit
(Acquirer / Merchant)

30 Services Not Provided or Merchandise Not Received 120* 45

Transaction Modifiers applicable to Reason Code 30

Airline Transaction

https://chargeback.com/visa-chargeback-time-limits/
https://chargeback.com/mastercard-ch...k-time-limits/

Last edited by jonnyincali; Sep 2, 17 at 12:14 am
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Old Sep 2, 17, 6:54 am
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Thanks for shedding light on that. I strikethrough portions of my previous post.

VISA chargeback code 30 on page PSR-613.
Mastercard pages 46 and 211.

Last edited by seawolf; Sep 2, 17 at 7:01 am
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Old Sep 2, 17, 8:00 am
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Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
Thanks for shedding light on that. I strikethrough portions of my previous post.

VISA chargeback code 30 on page PSR-613.
Mastercard pages 46 and 211.
Thanks for going through those daunting manuals. As someone who is holding an Airberlin ticket that may or may not be good in the future, it is comforting to know at least I have chargeback rights.
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Old Sep 2, 17, 8:36 am
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The 60 days is actually measured from the date the goods or services were expected to be provided or the card holder learned of that the goods or services would not be provided.

This is especially important for air tickets which are often purchased well in advance. Nonetheless, the 60 days starts when the consumer learns that the service will not be provided. Thus, waiting for the date of the flight if one was notified 3 months prior, may not work.

Some issuers provide longer time-frames, but that is as a matter of customer service not legal requirement.
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